Dear AFOLs...

[JoshWedin]

IT'S NOT ABOUT YOU.

Doodstormer, this thread has come real close to being inflammatory. I have been watching carefully. If it gets worse, it will be locked. Everyone that has responded to your initial tirade has been fairly rational. Try to keep your responses in the same vein.

Now for my thoughts. Like others who have responded, I also believe that "it is all about me". I buy the stuff, not my kids. Kids will play with literally anything. It is our responsibility, as parents, to make sure that they play with things that are beneficial. If I don't think a company or product is of good quality, I don't buy it. Many of the complaints that you are complaining about (definitely some irony there) have been voiced by my kids. The color change drives my seven year old daughter up the wall. She hates it when she builds something in grey and sometimes bricks don't match.

You also mentioned the KK2 joust. My kids hated that set. Why? They like horses. A jousting set without horses is pointless. I have bunch of the racer sets that use a similar launching mechanism and my kids like those. But the wheeled horses were junked. As for the KK2 knights, while some people do like them, my kids prefer the older stuff (the new Castle line is also well liked). I have given them a pile of Castle figs to play with and they usually don't use the KK2 knights as much. In fact, if I play with them, I have to use them since everything else is taken.

As for "complicated structures that rot in the attic", my kids play with my Lego. Most sets don't last very long before they are turned into something more "complicated". That is beauty of Lego.

As for our complaints in general, at times they make Lego a better product. And a big reason that I still am involved in this hobby is because of the level of response that we get from the company. Naturally they aren't perfect, but Lego is impressive and I thank them for that.

Hello, I’m new to posting here, but having read these pages, I feel the need to comment.

Point in fact, it is about me. As a parent of two boys (age 6 ½ and 3 ½) it is all about me. You see; the last time I checked my sons do not have jobs, nor do they have an income. They play with the toys that I buy them. Which is Lego, and Playmobil almost exclusively. As you can see by the ages they are below the recommended age listing. However, it all works out with supervision.

Hello Silvar, welcome to Classic-Castle. I really appreciated your comments. I am a parent and am very picky about the things I buy my children. My kids too have all played with Lego from a very young age (well below the age on the box) and I believe it shows.

Have fun!
Josh

PS. An AFOL is an Adult Fan Of Lego.

[Silvar]

Ah! AFOL. It is all clear now. =)


Thank you for your kind words, and I agree 100% with both your sentiments, and your experiences.

[Sir Kohran]

My point is different to doodstormer's. Basically I'm getting tired of the constant 'KK2 is crap' that is being restated time and again. It's been almost a year since it ended...can you just let it go and move on? By all means criticise and have negative opinions - but make it constructive, not insulting.

- Matt

[davee123]

Basically I'm getting tired of the constant 'KK2 is crap' that is being restated time and again.

Personally, I think you'll probably just have to learn to ignore that. There are a lot of dead horses all over the place in the Lego community, and they pretty much all get beaten now and again. Though admittedly, it's been a while since I've seen the name "Lego Explore" get a good thwack

The people doing the complaining obviously want to speak their mind, and the people wanting to reply obviously want to do the same. And getting people to be quiet about something is difficult-- rules are hard to craft in objective manners, and difficult to enforce. And there are enough new people that won't have read the history to know which horses are dead and which are living, so they'll just beat them arbitrarily.

DaveE

[Peppermint Pig]

1. New Brown/greys
Not a big problem. Sometimes I use Dark Bley with Old Brown and vice versa. The only issue is determining which color I want to draw from for a given MOC, which depends on the kinds of pieces available. I applaud Lego for being SMART about the KINDS of parts they provide with sets, since there is a good, even distribution of DESIRABLE parts in these new colors. What I don't like right now is the shoddy production value I've noticed with the new Grey. For example, the LEGO logo on the tops of the studs of bley brick is less pronounced, and the colors have been off. This is not a good sign. It could have something to do with the production process... whatever the case, it cheapens the value and I hope Lego works on this.

2. Fright Knights
You kidding me? Fright Knights are cool.

3. "Jellybean" Knights
Anything is fine in MODERATION. I can use some of the parts some of the time, but using them together is garish. The worst thing is the monochrome feeling, which is due to perhaps simple design work...

Lego may have over-compensated by making more subdued coloring in recent sets. I actually like them with a little more color, but these are fine.

I would strongly encourage Lego set designers to improve their understanding of color theory. Study Goethe. Examine trends in game art, particularly Asian styles that emphasize hue shifting. You can learn a great deal here, which would ultimately enhance the harmony of the sets and make them more desirable.

4. Single-sided buildings
If that single side is well designed, I don't mind.

5. Extreme sets
I like extreme sets better than "Jellybean" Knights. I don't mind Timmey's and Time Traveling either.

What upsets me is not a theme on skateboarding/sports, but a theme shoved down my throat by _marketing_ in cliches, such as EXTREME!!!11!1!

Playability should assert itself over a fad fetish. To make a video game analogy: Lego themes are often like the video game 'Avatar: The Last Airbender' Lego themes should be more like 'Katamari Damacy'.

6. "IT'S NOT ABOUT YOU."
Is this how Lego intends to build a rapport with it's customers?? We might be a minority, but we're a caring and vocal minority! We contribute to Lego's prosperity by preventing a secondhand market glut.

"LEGO was made for kids, and kids enjoy it just fine. quit griping, try playing with some 8-year-olds. Heck, let them into your huge 200 fig army. You can rebuild them easily enough."

If kids like it just fine and that's the final word, that means Lego will not grow its market share, and that's not something they want to do.

If I knew any kids in my area that liked Lego, they'd be welcome to come over and play in an instant. Would like to do local shows or maybe some kind of babysitting service with a huge bucket of assorted parts.

[JoshWedin]

Hey Peppermint Pig! Good to see you around.

"IT'S NOT ABOUT YOU."
Is this how Lego intends to build a rapport with it's customers?? We might be a minority, but we're a caring and vocal minority! We contribute to Lego's prosperity by preventing a secondhand market glut.

"LEGO was made for kids, and kids enjoy it just fine. quit griping, try playing with some 8-year-olds. Heck, let them into your huge 200 fig army. You can rebuild them easily enough."

If kids like it just fine and that's the final word, that means Lego will not grow its market share, and that's not something they want to do.

If I knew any kids in my area that liked Lego, they'd be welcome to come over and play in an instant. Would like to do local shows or maybe some kind of babysitting service with a huge bucket of assorted parts.

I just wanted to make sure you knew that the phrase, "Its not about you", didn't come from the Lego Company. That was from a member here. Although it would be funny if that was some company's motto. Maybe we should make it the theme in a contest...hmmm.

Its funny, you mentioned the babysitting-build idea. I did something similar last week. My kid's teacher has been setting up these art stations in their classroom, once a week. The kids rotate through and learn about different types of art. She knows about my obsession with Lego and asked me to come in and run a Lego station on architecture. She let me give a mini-lecture to the whole class first. I talked about style, scale, and construction techniques. Then I dumped out 30 pounds of basic bricks. It was really fun. I sat there and built with about twenty kids as they rotated through. We talked about the scale of their buildings, the purpose of them, what type of creatures inhabited their buildings, etc. The range of imagination was incredible. Anyway, I digress...

Josh

[Peppermint Pig]

Yes, I understand he's not with Lego. Nothing personal, either I'm an optimist and enjoy the Lego I have, but I'm also very skeptical of the economic issues.

That's a great story, Josh! If I ever do the babysitting thing, I'd be sure to buy a bunch of sets and gift them out to the kids. The only problem right now is perhaps my new puppy turned dog who likes to chew. He partially mutilated a large older Lego tire and a styracasaurus dinosaur. Very upsetting little monster!!

Did you happen to read the 'why we banned lego' article posted a while ago? Was a slanted article about a school that banned the toy. (could probably find it on digg or elsewhere).

Hrm.. an 'it's not about you' theme... I wonder how that would turn out. Extreme mecha-castle paradisa, I imagine?? A theme mashup or fad competition would be intriguing.

[davee123]

Did you happen to read the 'why we banned lego' article posted a while ago? Was a slanted article about a school that banned the toy. (could probably find it on digg or elsewhere).

Actually, it was quite a misleading title. They didn't ban Lego the way that you'd think of a ban. They confiscated the Lego from kids who weren't using it fairly. Kids were hogging special elements and disallowing others to build with them. So the teachers took the Lego away for a while, and only returned it to the classroom after the children came to some agreements on how to use the Lego fairly. Here's the article from Rethinking Schools:

http://www.rethinkingschools.org/archiv ... o212.shtml

DaveE

[Asterios]

what i hate about the new color changes is that their not even the same color,say i get a box with 32 2x6 Dark Bley bricks,guess what i bet all 32 are not even the same hue of Dark Bley even though their supposed to be,i've seen multiple hues of the same color which reminds me too much of Megacrud which begs to differ does LEGO care about the consumer or their bottom line?

[davor]

hey guys,

i`m new here but would like to share my opinion after reading all this -

there is something similar to this "OLD" vs "NEW" lego sets in music (i`m minimal/techno dj and producer and playing live act ) - lot of "old" techno heads will say music was better in 97-2000 than it is today...fact is that this people had great time during this period, they were junger and now they have sentimental feeling and its hard to get them to listen something that is basicly not so different today...bit junger people who were partying a lot during 2000-2003 period think music was the best during this time...again the same...... i think its totaly the same with LEGO. if we had KK2 sets in 80s and 90s we would love them now and clame it was the best castle era ever...lets be honest our emotions play big role in all this "bad colors,unrealismus, bad figures" talk! i love my black falcon figures- why? cos they are ultra massive designed with extra special features better than any other lego minifigure? NOPE...cos i got them in legendary castle 6074 set for my 6th birthday, i remember going to the shop with parents and how happy i was to build it cos it was huge castle (i was small so it looked SOOOOO HUGEEEE to me back than ) and this positive feeling is stored in my brain and this is why i love them and keep them like gold! if i got this morcia castle or other kk2 crap i would love it also and keep it the same way like my falcons...




ps.sorry for bad eng...

best
davor

[boses]

I do not believe the reason for the popularity of early Castle to be rooted in nostalgia. I think that over the years as AFOL's matured with their building and collecting, that they became more discerning. Many new techniques have been uncovered, but the new official models do not seem to have changed to reflect the changing attitudes amongst AFOL's. Many AFOL's have discovered through years of building that they can build models that may surpass the official models. All too often the official models are fodder for new parts. Many AFOL's now expect a higher degree of complexity or realism than is currently delivered in official sets, hence the discouragement with the recent Castle series....thanks...

[Peppermint Pig]

I do not believe the reason for the popularity of early Castle to be rooted in nostalgia. I think that over the years as AFOL's matured with their building and collecting, that they became more discerning. Many new techniques have been uncovered, but the new official models do not seem to have changed to reflect the changing attitudes amongst AFOL's. Many AFOL's have discovered through years of building that they can build models that may surpass the official models. All too often the official models are fodder for new parts. Many AFOL's now expect a higher degree of realism then is currently delivered in official sets...thanks...

I mostly agree. Newer doesn't always mean better. I prefer Black Falcons and Lions, and prefer some of the recent sets as opposed to the very old Castle. I think it has more to do with interesting building pieces.... So I think I agree, though I wouldn't necessarily call it 'realism', so much as it is a desire for a comprehensive offering of geometric pieces.

[Blueandwhite]

I do not believe the reason for the popularity of early Castle to be rooted in nostalgia. I think that over the years as AFOL's matured with their building and collecting, that they became more discerning. Many new techniques have been uncovered, but the new official models do not seem to have changed to reflect the changing attitudes amongst AFOL's. Many AFOL's have discovered through years of building that they can build models that may surpass the official models. All too often the official models are fodder for new parts. Many AFOL's now expect a higher degree of realism then is currently delivered in official sets...thanks...

I think there is alot of truth in what you're saying. For me, many of the KK and KKII castle sets have been disappointing with a poor selection of bricks that were selected with the intent of making the set look bigger, rather than creating an elaborate structure. This was made even more frustrating by the fact that we were seeing better offerings in other themes. Star Wars, Creator and even some of the Town sets were simply better value for many fans with a greater selection of useable bricks.

I'm often puzzled when people tell me I can't be discontent with a set or theme. What is wrong with expecting better from a company that I have grown up with for 30 years? Even now I think there is room for improvement in the current Castle line. The set designs are a definite step forward from KK and KKII, but there is always room to go further. To be satisfied with the status quo isn't always the best course of action. I'm happy that there are other fans who feel the need to voice their concerns, and that LEGO as a company has been willing to listen.

[JPinoy]

Keep this in mind when you talk about LEGO and kids...

Kids grow up to become adults. Adults who still play and collect LEGO, better known as AFOLs. Adult Fans of LEGO.

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