Dear AFOLs...

[speaknspell]

I have no intention of stealing your thunder, but this statement isn't accurate:

[quote="DARKspawn"]Is their a group of LEGO child Ambassadors? No.
[quote]

There is a group similar to the Ambassadors that's aimed directly at kids. It just has to be extremely tightly regulated in order to remain COPA compliant so we don't make a lot of public statements about it.

Steve

[jamitjames]

I am not sick of opinions, I'm sick of all the moaning and complaining about every single thing LEGO does.

If someone has an opinion against something and they voice it that is what we call "complaining." Thus in order for many of us to voice our opinions we must moan and complain. So it would appear you are indeed sick of opinions.

I am as well, but that doesn't mean I'm going to ever stop!

[Jacob C.]

I think ambassadors get the point just fine the first 3 times or so, why must you continue to complain about it?

Complaining is just a part of human nature. You'll find the same thing on any other internet forum.
You do realize that by creating this thread, you were in fact making a complaint about the complaining of other people?
I just thought that was kind of ironic.

I came here to talk about castle sets and see other peoples MOCs.

You came to the right place.

Instead all I found was people rambling on like old men in a bar about the "Golden Age" of castle. There was no "Golden Age".

I have to disagree with you on this point.
The castle sets that were released from the early 80's till the early 90's hold an almost magical place in LEGO castle's history. It truly was a golden age. Give it another 20 years or so and those sets will literally be worth their weight in gold (NIB) on ebay!

[DARKspawn]

Did you even read any of what I wrote?

Yes, yes I did... but you have to admit that your post is abrasive, you came out both guns blazing, certainly you didn't expect this thread to go well

I think ambassadors get the point just fine the first 3 times or so, why must you continue to complain about it?

I didn't

I am not sick of opinions, I'm sick of all the moaning and complaining about every single thing LEGO does.

There is a very fine line between opinion & moaning, & usually that comes down to the readers opinion. For example, both your posts sound like "moaning" to me, but I'm willing to give you the benifit of the doubt.

There is a group similar to the Ambassadors that's aimed directly at kids. It just has to be extremely tightly regulated in order to remain COPA compliant so we don't make a lot of public statements about it.

Cheers, Steve. I had no doubt there were focus groups for kids, but it's always interesting to get an insight into everone's favourite company

[Athos]

Dear AFOLs/TFOLs,

It has come to my attention that you have several complaints with LEGO...

This actually has started to aggravate me with every complaint...

I'm saying:
IT'S NOT ABOUT YOU.
LEGO was made for kids, and kids enjoy it just fine. quit griping...

- Doodstormer

Personally, your points seem for the most part logical and valid. Lego is a kids toy and thus the company has to produce products that will appear to contemporary children. More often than not, that means it will not appeal to AFOLs.

At the same time, however, and I think this is rather important, you overlook the fact that many of us have 20+ years invested in the hobby. So changes like the new greys/brown hit us pretty hard. And still hits us everytime we try to build something in those colors (and don't get me started on how hard sorting has become).

As to the KK2 complaints, the company indicated we'd be seeing a nice new castle line. Instead we got a silly excursion into power-rangers. So we were a bit disappointed. Further the complaints about KK2 appear to have been somewhat valid and successful. Most of the KK2 line had horrible designs and wound up on clearance shelves. As a result, we've got the new Castle line, which appears to be popular amongst AFOLs and selling well for kids.

Also, while your points may be rational, you overlook that people are generally not. Complaining makes us feel better. And, as far as I'm concerned if the price for making us feel better is a little complaining clogs up the boards a bit, so be it.

Finally, this is a board to discuss Lego, both our likes and dislikes. So I, for one, intend to go on complaining when I don't like something, in hopes that Lego won't go down that road again.

Steve

[Sir Kohran]

So we were a bit disappointed.

To you maybe, but not everyone. Many of us liked those sets and the constant non-stop 'KK2 is crap' does get annoying to read. This is basically what annoys me - people say something is 'crap' or 'rubbish' and then use the excuse that it's 'opinion'. This would be unacceptable if you were viewing a MoC; calling someone's work 'crap' would not be tolerated; why is different for Lego products?

Most of the KK2 line had horrible designs and wound up on clearance shelves.

So why did it last for three years? If it didn't sell well then Lego would have ended it the first year (KK1). I won't deny that Castle 07 is a better line but from what Lego officials have said apparently they just wanted to change things round a bit.

- Matt

[Asterios]

So why did it last for three years? If it didn't sell well then Lego would have ended it the first year (KK1). I won't deny that Castle 07 is a better line but from what Lego officials have said apparently they just wanted to change things round a bit.

- Matt

thats a bad point to use i can think of several lines several companies used and dragged on for years even though they died in their first year,not too mention how long was Galidor around for?or Bionicles?face it they have revamped that line over and over and yet its not that great of a seller even on the clearance aisle,essentially LEGO did the Crayola Knights to try to drag in the power ranger's crowd but they failed in this and tried various forms of the themes which is why it lasted 3 years.

[Sir Kohran]

thats a bad point to use i can think of several lines several companies used and dragged on for years even though they died in their first year

So are you claiming KK2 'died' in its first year?

It would not have been continued if it did not sell. KK1 and Adventurers did not sell. They were not continued. Bionicle, Star Wars and KK2 sold well. They *were* continued.

how long was Galidor around for?

One year...if that. It was discontinued because it didn't sell.

or Bionicles?

Bionicle has always been a good seller; in fact I'd say it was what kept Lego afloat for the past few years. Whilst I personally am not particularly interested in it anymore it is apparently still going strong.

Basically Bionicle was continued beyond the first year because it sold well...in the same way as KK2 did.

LEGO did the Crayola Knights to try to drag in the power ranger's crowd

Your proof for this being? Anyway according to what Lego officials have said the idea of a fantasy line was inspired by LOTR (look at the dates - ROTK released at the end of 2003, KK2 released the next year).

but they failed in this and tried various forms of the themes which is why it lasted 3 years.

You've got no proof for any of this.

- Matt

[davee123]

thats a bad point to use i can think of several lines several companies used and dragged on for years even though they died in their first year,not too mention how long was Galidor around for?or Bionicles?face it they have revamped that line over and over and yet its not that great of a seller even on the clearance aisle,essentially LEGO did the Crayola Knights to try to drag in the power ranger's crowd but they failed in this and tried various forms of the themes which is why it lasted 3 years.

I don't think that's true. My guess is that the 1st release of KK2 did very well, and the 2nd release of KK2 did very poorly. Lines that do poorly in their first year of release don't get followup years. Like Rock Raiders, Dinosaurs, Basketball, or Galidor. I know for Rock Raiders, they had a whole series of sets planned for the later years of release, as was the case for Galidor. Probably true for Dinosaurs and Basketball too. Anyway, they all got axed because they didn't do that well.

Other themes like Alpha Team, Adventurers, Pirates, Scala, etc, all did well at first (or well enough), but then went out of favor and were discontinued. I'd easily wager that KK2 falls into this category.

As for Bionicle-- why do you think it hasn't been doing well? Bionicle's one of Lego's top selling products, IIRC. It's true that we see them clearenced quite a bit, but that doesn't mean it's not selling. Bionicle was their *top* selling theme for 2002, 2003, and 2004 according to their annual reports. I haven't checked 2005 or 2006, but I'd wager Bionicle's still near the top!

[edit]Yep, for 2005 Bionicle was again the top selling product, although I can't tell if it's the case for 2006[/edit]

DaveE

[Formendacil]

As to WHY KK2 sold so well yet reviewed so poorly here... let's face it, after a three-four year hiatus, ANY Castle line was going to be gobbled up, especially by kids who didn't have extensive collections of old sets to fall back on. Or by AFOLs desperate for a fix of "New Castle LEGO" (let's face it: while many of us whined about those sets, we did buy them). Without even asking whether or not KK2 was a good line, it makes perfect sense that it sold, if you grant the obvious premise that Castle LEGO is always going to be popular.

[davee123]

LEGO did the Crayola Knights to try to drag in the power ranger's crowd

Your proof for this being? Anyway according to what Lego officials have said the idea of a fantasy line was inspired by LOTR (look at the dates - ROTK released at the end of 2003, KK2 released the next year).

From what I heard, KK2 was a foray into character-based play themes rather than generic figures. That's similar to what Lego did with Bionicle, Exo-Force, and Alpha Team, and to a lesser extent Adventurers, Dino Attack, and Rock Raiders. KK2 beefed up the uniqueness of the characters by giving them colored armor, setting them up as their own distinct characters with their own traits. And the personalities were similarly chosen to be more illustrated and in-depth, unlike with KK1, where characters were pretty much just given a name.

As for KK2 being based on LOTR, is that true? It seems like the present Castle 2007/2008 themes are more influenced by LOTR than KK2, I would think. Although certainly the popularity of the castle genre was assuredly pumped up from the LOTR films at the time of KK2's release.

DaveE

[Athos]

Personally, I'm not sure how well it sold. I picked up all my first round sets on clearance for at least 30% off. Same with years two and three.

Maybe I just got lucky with sales...?

Steve

[Aliencat]

I came here to talk about castle sets and see other peoples MOCs. Instead all I found was people rambling on like old men in a bar about the "Golden Age" of castle.

Funny because I still come here to talk about castle sets and see other people's MOC and I'm not noticing the complaining all that much really. You're just paying extra attention to it because it annoys you. I just read over it and get on with what I came here for: check out cool new MOCs and talk to people about my own MOCs.
Maybe you should do the same and not get so worked up over something you can just skip over.
This isn't meant offensively in any case, I just think this thread is a bit redundant. Just read about the MOCs and sets you came here to read and ignore the rest

[Asterios]

thats a bad point to use i can think of several lines several companies used and dragged on for years even though they died in their first year,not too mention how long was Galidor around for?or Bionicles?face it they have revamped that line over and over and yet its not that great of a seller even on the clearance aisle,essentially LEGO did the Crayola Knights to try to drag in the power ranger's crowd but they failed in this and tried various forms of the themes which is why it lasted 3 years.

I don't think that's true. My guess is that the 1st release of KK2 did very well, and the 2nd release of KK2 did very poorly. Lines that do poorly in their first year of release don't get followup years. Like Rock Raiders, Dinosaurs, Basketball, or Galidor. I know for Rock Raiders, they had a whole series of sets planned for the later years of release, as was the case for Galidor. Probably true for Dinosaurs and Basketball too. Anyway, they all got axed because they didn't do that well.

Other themes like Alpha Team, Adventurers, Pirates, Scala, etc, all did well at first (or well enough), but then went out of favor and were discontinued. I'd easily wager that KK2 falls into this category.

As for Bionicle-- why do you think it hasn't been doing well? Bionicle's one of Lego's top selling products, IIRC. It's true that we see them clearenced quite a bit, but that doesn't mean it's not selling. Bionicle was their *top* selling theme for 2002, 2003, and 2004 according to their annual reports. I haven't checked 2005 or 2006, but I'd wager Bionicle's still near the top!

[edit]Yep, for 2005 Bionicle was again the top selling product, although I can't tell if it's the case for 2006[/edit]

DaveE

thats easy to explain,LEGO is smart in this aspect since have you ever looked at the LEGO Aisle?how much of it is Bionicle space?and how much of it is Regular LEGO space?,don't know about you but Bionicle flooded the market way too much i base my true sales estimate by how well or how poorly it does on eBay or BL and by opinion polls,i've got a nephew and niece who both love LEGO but hate Bionicle,true they may not be a wide polling but still i see so much Bionicle on clearance here and very little sold at retail here,even when they had those bionicle guys for $4.99 on black Friday at TRU they still only sold a few,but then again they still had Viking sets left too,but that was cause i didn't have the green to make the scene.

[Asterios]

I came here to talk about castle sets and see other peoples MOCs. Instead all I found was people rambling on like old men in a bar about the "Golden Age" of castle.

Funny because I still come here to talk about castle sets and see other people's MOC and I'm not noticing the complaining all that much really. You're just paying extra attention to it because it annoys you. I just read over it and get on with what I came here for: check out cool new MOCs and talk to people about my own MOCs.
Maybe you should do the same and not get so worked up over something you can just skip over.
This isn't meant offensively in any case, I just think this thread is a bit redundant. Just read about the MOCs and sets you came here to read and ignore the rest

what it comes down to is Doodstormer especially likes KKII sets i presume so he doesn't like when people talk bad about it,but then again i don't think he was around when the first castle sets came out believe me he would change his tune,same with Classic space,yeah SW is nice but Classic space brings back good memories.