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Castle (Medieval) GAP Needs to be Filled By...

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Re: Castle (Medieval) GAP Needs to be Filled By...

Postby Tyrant » Fri Jan 01, 2010 2:03 am

Sir Prog wrote:Which is LUDICROUS to begin with. I would say that extreme politicism has no place here, but of course history shows us those in charge make the rules (and define history for themselves). Let's just take the largest organization to wield power within a 1000-year span and sweep it under the rug...I don't think so. In fact, the idea of libraries, hidden passages, crypts, plus the architectural designs, how could a great set or series NOT be considered appropriate???

LEGO has to worry about their image. They were a mostly nonviolent toy that promoted learning and imagination. They have, as far as I know, no media enemies and nothing but good press (pricing aside). The moment they even appear to endorse a religion, all of that can change. The media can quite easily twist it from "promoting learning and imagination" to "brainwashing kids with religious propoganda". Look at D&D. That game got some serious bad press for supposedly being a conduit to the devil. Comic books were supposed to be corrupting the youth of the nation. Etc., etc. It has happened many times before and will continue to happen. Why would LEGO ever even consider taking that kind of flak? I would love it if they made sets like the ones people in the thread want, but it won't happen anytime soon.
Danielas wrote:With all due respect the church was a huge part of history. If someone is offended by a Lego set based on the past then they have problems. Just because there is a crucifix on the alter dosn't mean that the Lego group is anti Hindu it just means they are trying to make a historically accurate set.

Castle isn't a historically accurate theme. It's most recent incarnation even less so than the older sets. If Castle had actual historical figures, nationalities, and castles I could see the argument. As is, I don't recall which country the Black Falcon's held or where the Orcs and Skeletons fought their epic wars. Again, I would love for it to happen but it is highly unlikely.
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Re: Castle (Medieval) GAP Needs to be Filled By...

Postby Karalora » Fri Jan 01, 2010 4:04 am

Tyrant wrote:Castle isn't a historically accurate theme. It's most recent incarnation even less so than the older sets. If Castle had actual historical figures, nationalities, and castles I could see the argument. As is, I don't recall which country the Black Falcon's held or where the Orcs and Skeletons fought their epic wars. Again, I would love for it to happen but it is highly unlikely.


What would religion even be like in the world of Fantasy Era Castle? Certainly the existence of non-human civilizations (dwarves and orcs) and powerful magic would result in a cosmology very different from that of medieval Christianity.
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Re: Castle (Medieval) GAP Needs to be Filled By...

Postby Quickblade22 » Fri Jan 01, 2010 6:52 pm

This is being analyzed way more than need be. Lego is a company. They want profit. They try to make money based on what makes people happy. You can't always make everyone happy. That's the beauty of Lego. You want crosses and churches? Lego gives you the pieces to make them. You want some good fantasy stuff? We now have some of that stuff too. Just imagine where we'd all be if people only built sets exactly like the instructions show. No reason for there to be a community at all would it?
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Re: Castle (Medieval) GAP Needs to be Filled By...

Postby ottoatm » Sat Jan 02, 2010 7:53 am

Quickblade22 wrote:This is being analyzed way more than need be. Lego is a company. They want profit. They try to make money based on what makes people happy. You can't always make everyone happy. That's the beauty of Lego. You want crosses and churches? Lego gives you the pieces to make them. You want some good fantasy stuff? We now have some of that stuff too. Just imagine where we'd all be if people only built sets exactly like the instructions show. No reason for there to be a community at all would it?


Well spoken - and agreed!

If they make a church/monastery, they do, if they don't we do. Either way I'll be fine.

LEGO will make what they think will pay their bills. We can do the rest. :raiseone:
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Re: Castle (Medieval) GAP Needs to be Filled By...

Postby Tyrant » Sat Jan 02, 2010 8:43 pm

Karalora wrote:
Tyrant wrote:Castle isn't a historically accurate theme. It's most recent incarnation even less so than the older sets. If Castle had actual historical figures, nationalities, and castles I could see the argument. As is, I don't recall which country the Black Falcon's held or where the Orcs and Skeletons fought their epic wars. Again, I would love for it to happen but it is highly unlikely.


What would religion even be like in the world of Fantasy Era Castle? Certainly the existence of non-human civilizations (dwarves and orcs) and powerful magic would result in a cosmology very different from that of medieval Christianity.

I assume it would be a lot more like one of the D&D cosmologies. Probably like a chunk of the Forgotten Realms cosmology. Gods for various things like Love, Death, Magic, etc as well as by race (humans primarily, followed by Orcs and whatever else). You could possibly even include the Elemental Planes using some of the Power Miners rock guys as various elementals. That would be my guess anyway. I suppose the Warhammer cosmology is also a possibility since we have humans, undead, and orcs. Or there is the LotR approach. Any way you look at it, I have my doubts it would mirror medieval Europe if for no other reason than the fact that Orcs, Undead, and Dragons exist along with actual magic (as opposed to cheap tricks used on peasants).
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Re: Castle (Medieval) GAP Needs to be Filled By...

Postby Mörs » Sat Jan 02, 2010 10:58 pm

LEGO will make what they think will pay their bills. We can do the rest. :raiseone:

But isn't OUR job to let LEGO know what we want?
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Re: Castle (Medieval) GAP Needs to be Filled By...

Postby Bluesecrets » Sat Jan 02, 2010 11:06 pm

But isn't OUR job to let LEGO know what we want?


But one must always remember, we are NOT the target audience of LEGO. TFOL's and AFOL's are not in the target age range.
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Re: Castle (Medieval) GAP Needs to be Filled By...

Postby Blueandwhite » Sun Jan 03, 2010 3:55 am

Bluesecrets wrote:
But isn't OUR job to let LEGO know what we want?


But one must always remember, we are NOT the target audience of LEGO. TFOL's and AFOL's are not in the target age range.


I'm not sure I can agree with you on this one.

While LEGO will always be a kids-first product, the number of AFOL/TFOL sets we've seen LEGO produce over the past several years has been astounding. Everything from the Market Village to the various UCS sets and the Corner Cafe series have almost certainly been made with AFOL/TFOL consumers in mind. As a community we are exceedingly fortunate as LEGO is a company that has shown itself willing and able to listen to our ideas. We may not always be the target demographic, but on more than one occassion it would seem that LEGO has focused almost exclusively on it's AFOL/TFOL fanbase.
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Re: Castle (Medieval) GAP Needs to be Filled By...

Postby Bluesecrets » Sun Jan 03, 2010 4:12 am

I'm not sure I can agree with you on this one.

While LEGO will always be a kids-first product, the number of AFOL/TFOL sets we've seen LEGO produce over the past several years has been astounding. Everything from the Market Village to the various UCS sets and the Corner Cafe series have almost certainly been made with AFOL/TFOL consumers in mind. As a community we are exceedingly fortunate as LEGO is a company that has shown itself willing and able to listen to our ideas. We may not always be the target demographic, but on more than one occassion it would seem that LEGO has focused almost exclusively on it's AFOL/TFOL fanbase.


Feel free to disagree all you wish. I just figure the handful of sets you are talking about is less than 10% of the total number of set sales for the year. (Please note that I am guessing with that and have no actual statistics to back that up or confirm the number.) I have heard many times (more than I can count) that it is a children's toy and that it the primary market, not the AFOL community. Sure they listen to us, but will they create a whole line for us? I don't find that very likely. So I find it very important to remember that it is the kids they market to, not us. And when you are thinking about what sets should exist, remember kids have to want it, like it, and test well with it.
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Re: Castle (Medieval) GAP Needs to be Filled By...

Postby ottoatm » Sun Jan 03, 2010 4:52 am

The recent additions that have been aimed more at us AFOL/TFOLs have been very cool to see - and I think a result of sites like CC and the many LEGO-Cons we have all over the world. It's been really fun to watch TLG get closer to us over the years.

These new sets aimed at us AFOL/TFOLs shouldn't be blown out of proportion though... I do think that we are more of a niche (that will hopefully grow) than the target - the same being true for some other sets (like Star Wars Death Stars, etc).

In terms of ratio, for each of the new sets aimed at us, I do believe that there are several sets aimed at my little nephew (6yrs.) for example.

That said, I do see nothing wrong with us asking for whatever we wish in this forum or anywhere else - and I would love to see a monastery as well~
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Re: Castle (Medieval) GAP Needs to be Filled By...

Postby Mörs » Sun Jan 03, 2010 3:12 pm

Seriously, I don't see anything wrong with making a LEGO monastery/church set... On the other hand, though, I don't see what would be so great about a set like that, either.
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Re: Castle (Medieval) GAP Needs to be Filled By...

Postby Blueandwhite » Mon Jan 04, 2010 4:50 am

Mörs wrote:Seriously, I don't see anything wrong with making a LEGO monastery/church set... On the other hand, though, I don't see what would be so great about a set like that, either.


Simply put; it's an aspect of medieval life that is not covered (and won't ever be covered) by the mainline. The Market Village was a similar product in that respect. We get countless castle sets, but each one typically features heroes and villians, knights and trolls, or some other combat oriented figures. For kids this makes perfect sense, however many of us AFOLs have already amassed large armies of heroes and villians. What we lack is a kingdom for those figures to feud over. Religious life was a very important aspect of the middle ages, so it goes without saying that some folks would love to see a set dedicated to this.

I still don't think such a set will ever develop, but I certainly understand the appeal.
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Re: Castle (Medieval) GAP Needs to be Filled By...

Postby Elbadar » Thu Jan 14, 2010 11:20 pm

Speaking as an unbiased party, a monastery shows no religious afiliation if it shows no religious symbols. Since lego has made several asian temples that were obviously meant to be hindu with the only distinction being the lack of religious images, the same rules apply. The only reason that I can think of for which Christianity style buildings would be more controvercial is because it is the majority, a majority which lego is largely a part of. Sure to us being purely fans of the toy it would be purely historical, but to other religions that do not trace back in some way to the medieval Catholic Church it looks like cultural bias. It might not be this way if lego were founded in India by Hindus, but it isn't, so western religions become more of a hot button.

Speaking as a biased party, the church has a hugely more deserved place in castle anything than skeletons, orcs, and golden knights. A monestary isn't even a purely religious building, but lego has sold the purely american american flag. It's a complete double standard, and it gives fans the short end of the stick.

Dear Lego, theres two billion christians in the world, how much larger a market could you possibly find?
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Re: Castle (Medieval) GAP Needs to be Filled By...

Postby ottoatm » Sat Jan 16, 2010 1:28 pm

There are actually many more hindus, muslims, etc in the world, but I get your point. :wink:

As mentioned before, I don't believe it is so much about political issues, but simple dollars/cents~
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Re: Castle (Medieval) GAP Needs to be Filled By...

Postby Napoleon » Sat Jan 16, 2010 8:17 pm

@Ottoatm: Woah, last I checked, there are many more Christians than Hindus. Also, he might be refering to every denomination, and not just Catholic. I, as a Baptist, still take offense if they make Hindu/Bhuddist/Islamic temples/churches, and yet have not made a Medieval Catholic church. Fine, leave the crosses out, but please, LEGO, make a monastary.

[quote="Elbadar]"but lego has sold the purely american american flag.[/quote]

Ah, but being an American is not a spiritual thing. :eyebrows: Boy, this is a good debate! :D
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