Lego Prices

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TheOrk
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Lego Prices

Post by TheOrk »

Have you ever noticed how the price of lego went up?
Small sets that were like 5$ are now around 20$ and castles range from 45$ to 100$.
During christmass a year or two ago I had chose between the KK1 Castle and an Xbox with a game...
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Re: Lego Prices

Post by Formendacil »

TheOrk wrote:Small sets that were like 5$ are now around 20$
I think you're exaggerating a bit.

They're more in the $10.00 range, I'd say. Maybe up to the $15.00.
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Re: Lego Prices

Post by J1A3L5 »

Formendacil wrote:
TheOrk wrote:Small sets that were like 5$ are now around 20$
I think you're exaggerating a bit.

They're more in the $10.00 range, I'd say. Maybe up to the $15.00.
I agree. For small(er) sets, I think the price raise is within 5 dollars. I think that is due largely to the vast selection of new pieces.
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Re: Lego Prices

Post by TheOrk »

Quote:
I think you're exaggerating a bit.

They're more in the $10.00 range, I'd say. Maybe up to the $15.00

You say I'm exaggerating a bit but if you add tax, currency ect....
Then it adds up to the 20$ area.
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Re: Lego Prices

Post by Formendacil »

TheOrk wrote:You say I'm exaggerating a bit but if you add tax, currency ect....
Then it adds up to the 20$ area.
Well, I stand by my opinion. I am generally going with Canadian prices, and because of currency issues, any jumps would be greater, as well as tax. I still don't think there's been a times four increase. Remember, there was tax on those sets ten years ago too.
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Post by wlister »

Federal GST Tax came into place in Canada in 1990 or 1991, I remember wearing the no GST pins back then. The Feds brought it in to reduce the Federal deficit. It never worked, nor did they use it the way they said they would. At the time it was brought into action, the GST was illegal according to the Canadian constitution. The Federal government sidestepped the issue and altered the constitution to suit their agenda. Thanks Mr. Mulroney. :x Federal Income Taxes are also illegal according to the original Canadian constitution, the right to tax collection was only given to the provinces who were then supposed to pass on a portion to the Federal Gov't. Of course they didn't follow those laws either. :wink:

Anyway thanks for the Canadian History lesson Will, what does this have to do with lego prices?

Simply this, look at the KKI sets 4816, 4817, 4818, 4819 were sets priced at $4.99 US or $6.49 CDN Now look at 4819, two figs, a cart and a horse. Now look at 8777 two figs a tiny catapult, a horse. You can't tell me that two euro armor and a horse barding should double the prices we see now. Taxes did not play a factor in these price increases. The medium sized sets have also see some rather nasty jump is price per piece ratios. The only constant in prices has really been the large castle sets in Canada, they have consitently been $129.99 CDN since the 6090. Fright Knights, Ninja and KKI were all in this range. There are no more $15.00 sets we used to see in the 90's, those sets are now the $29.99 sets. So prices have at least doubled since the mid 90's and in the case of the smaller sets, since KKI. I can also say that my retail purchases have been cut in half or better by the large price increases.

So no, taxes didn't raise the prices of Lego, TLC did.

Will

Hope you don't mind the Canadian Tax history lesson. :wink:
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Post by architect »

For the Knight's Kingdom 2, the increased prices are across the board of sets. This has been discussed in other threads here and on lugnet. My theory, which many people agree with, is that the increased quality in packaging and playing cards added several dollars in cost to each set. The new boxes, except 8777, are glossy and pressed to create an indent around parts of the images. Most of these are also flip top boxes. The playing cards, unlike the orient expedition ones, are die cut in shield shapes and are very glossy. These decisions must add alot to the set prices.

Personally I am against these changes. Kids like shiny and fancy things such as the cards and boxes, but lego system is about building with the bricks, and non glossy cards for a game will work just as well.

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Post by rogue27 »

They have drastically raised prices in the past few years. In the past, something like Vladek Encounter (8777?) would have been $4 or $6, but now it's $9.

Looking back to something as recent as Dark Forest (1996) things like 6024 Bandit Ambush were only about $5 - $6, but something of that size now would end up being $10. Today, the cheapest Lego sets available are $4, but those are few and far between. Orient Expedition gave us one $4 set in a theme with at least 12 sets. Harry Potter had one $4 and one $7 set out of 40 sets, and the rest were $10 or more.

Many prices have been raised by about 50% in the last few years, while there are very few small sets available anymore.

The lack of low-priced small sets is quite a shame. I don't know about everybody else, but a $3 Stock Car set from 1986 and a space value pack from 1984 are what got me started on this whole Lego thing. Small inexpensive sets are important. I remember each year used to have one or more new sets in each theme under $6.

It also seems as if inflation never really affected Lego much. A $5 - $6 lego set in 1984 would give you about as much value as a $5 or $6 set in 1998.

$5 - $6 throughout the ages:
1984 Catapult
1986 Maiden's Cart
1987 Castle Guard
1990 Black Monarch's Ghost
1992 Wolfpack Renegades
1996 Bandit Ambush
1998 Treasure Transport

(Please note that many of the prices listed on Lugnet are higher than actual retail prices due to S@H catalogs including shipping in the cost)

Even 2000's Knight's Kingdom line had 10 Lego sets for under $6, including a couple for $2 and $3 each. These sets, however, didn't give you quite as much value for your money as earlier sets, but you can blame that on juniorization, large molded specialty parts, and poor set designs.

Why are we sitting here just 4 years later with the cheapest minifig scale castle set having a retail price of $9? The rest of the KK2 product line is also overpriced.

Reasons I suspect for higher prices:
  • The 2003 loss causes them to charge more for Lego this year because they think it will help their situation.
  • Money wasted developing too many new parts (like that ugly sword and the 5 ugly visors)
  • Designing, printing, and mailing 8 S@H catalogs each year gets rather expensive. They only had 3 in the late 80's and early 90s. (annual, spring sale, and christmas/holiday)
  • The instructions are thicker because they tend to attach less pieces per step than they did in the past, so more steps are required to build something, and more pages must be designed, printed, and bound.
  • The instructions are thicker because they put in comics which must be written, drawn, printed and bound.
  • Thicker instructions weigh more which also increases shipping costs.
  • They pay one or more people to come up with terrible storylines.
  • They make websites with flash comics to display the awful storyline.
  • They develop games as seen in KK2 and Orient Expedition sets which increases shipping costs, development costs, and manufacturing costs.
  • Overdeveloped box art and designs which are probably costly and take focus away from the actual lego parts.
  • Too much focus group testing that draws bad conclusions.
  • Short shelf life. I see sets on clearance after they've only been around for 6-12 months. In the past, sets would typically be around for 24 months and some exceptional sets would even be around for 36-48 months (like 6080 King's Castle)
All of the above junk did not exist 6-8 years ago, and that's why the prices were still good then. It seems to be around 2000 where things started turning really ugly.


What do I think TLC needs to do to give us good prices, quality, and value again?
  • Cut back on all of the things I listed above as being costly.
  • Declare a "year of no new parts" where they do not make any new parts, and force all set designers to use only existing parts in all new set designs for one year. Don't forget that the Sopwith Camel, Red Baron Plane, and Danny's Blacksmith Shop all had great prices for their size and part count due to them being forced to use existing parts.
  • Don't give us a storyline. If they want their creative writers to do something, create a setting. Give us 2-4 factions, give us a bit of history for each faction and how they interact with the others, maybe a couple unique named characters in each faction, but let people make up their own stories from there.
  • No comics, no board games, no unnecessary background graphics on the instruction manuals. I was perfectly happy with plain yellow pages for many years.
  • Return to box designs that focus on the lego parts themselves.
  • Give us sets spanning the range from $3 - $70
  • Include more 7+ and 8+ sets into the minifig scale themes. Many 80s castle sets said "7-12" on them and they were good, but this 5-7 stuff is terrible.
  • Find some way to increase the shelf life of the lego sets. Lower prices, better designs, better marketing, more modularity and compatibility within and between themes, etc
A product line following those guidelines should be appealing, affordable, and profitable for TLC.
Last edited by rogue27 on Fri Sep 10, 2004 2:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by architect »

put more 7+ and 8+ sets into the minifig scale themes. Many 80s castle sets said "7-12" on them. This 5-7 stuff is terrible.
Actually, beginning in 1984, the catalogs had 5-12 as the age group. You are correct about later on many times it was 7-12. I think LEGO needs to have smaller sets for the 5-7 group but more complicated sets (the castles) for the 10-12 year olds, mid range sets could be for 8-9 year olds. Plus if your kid is smart, like us afols were, they will be able to build the 12 year old set when they are 5 or 6 :wink:

I do agree with most of your assessments. We cant forget inflation, but these extras which get in the way of system bother me.

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Post by rogue27 »

Actually, beginning in 1984, the catalogs had 5-12 as the age group. You are correct about later on many times it was 7-12. I think LEGO needs to have smaller sets for the 5-7 group but more complicated sets (the castles) for the 10-12 year olds, mid range sets could be for 8-9 year olds. Plus if your kid is smart, like us afols were, they will be able to build the 12 year old set when they are 5 or 6
Well, I wonder if they listed it as 5-12 and then parents complained about "sharp spears" and other things so they later raised it up a bit.

I know some more complicated sets will have higher ages. I believe Danny's Blacksmith shop says 12+ on it, and even Dark Forest Forest said 8-12. If the old stuff was for ages 5-12, TLC must truly believe that today's kids are dumber.
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Post by TheOrk »

rogue27 wrote:
If the old stuff was for ages 5-12, TLC must truly believe that today's kids are dumber.
Todays kids are dumber. Thanks to video games ect...
On average the highest marks in my class are mainly C's and a couple of B's. And theres all those 'special' classes now so you can't blame lego for that.
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Post by Sir Vincent »

TheOrk wrote:
rogue27 wrote:
If the old stuff was for ages 5-12, TLC must truly believe that today's kids are dumber.
Todays kids are dumber. Thanks to video games ect...
On average the highest marks in my class are mainly C's and a couple of B's. And theres all those 'special' classes now so you can't blame lego for that.
Todays kids aren't dumber (for the most part) the work is harder...my parents always tell me that I'm doing the work they did in high school...and I'm in 8th grade...

edit: and in my school if you get straight C's you fail...
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Post by Formendacil »

Today's kids aren't dumber, potential-wise, but in a lot of fields they are not getting their intelligence developed, and the attitudes of people like TLC aren't necessarily helping. Today's kids are just as skilled at building as we were, but they aren't getting the same chances to prove it that we did.
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Post by Emperor James »

I actually don't think that kk2 is that overpriced for what you get. Sure, what you get is crap, but that isn't the point. The price/piece is average, even though the pieces are generally large.
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Post by Commander Redbeard »

They may not be dumber, but they act it. I couldn't see some of the idiots in my school even having the intelligence to snap two megablox together... The sight of a real lego set like King's Castle would knock them out cold.... I don't blame TLC for THAT, at least... It's those @#$%&* vidio games. When kids ask me what I do at home, they look at me like I'M the idiot when I say that I don't even own a game system.... And then go on talking about level 896.5 of their stupid new game... Where's this going to? Even some of the kids in my algebra and language classes, while not COMPLETE idiots, play vidio games. some kids act like those %$#@ cable wires and joysticks are their life support... I wonder what would happen if I turned it off. And they say I don't have a life...
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