LEGo,bring back the classics!

Post by **Formendacil** » Fri Mar 17, 2006 9:13 pm

I'd love to see a new Forestman theme, but why does it need to be the sets of the 80s?

Think about it: Robin Hood and his merry men (or any variation of the "Men in Lincoln Green" theme) are sellers. The AFOLs, at least, would gobble up a new theme in the Forestmen/Dark Forest tradition: Forestman caps, bows and quivers, lots of brown and green (foliage!). Such a theme would be ready-made for us.

And that bad-guys needn't be the Falcons or Crusaders. Nor do they need to be the "real" historical English knights. Give us a new theme of knights! Or make the Shadow Knights the bad guys!

Seriously, I'd love a new Forestmanish theme.

wunztwice · Post by **wunztwice** » Fri Mar 17, 2006 9:22 pm

That's a great idea and makes alot of sense to me. I don't think dark forest sold as well as the older foresmen theme, but perhaps better sets (think hemlock stronghold) would improve the sales.

Histo-Sci · Post by **Histo-Sci** » Fri Mar 17, 2006 10:31 pm

CLASSICS! CLASSICS! CLASSICS!

Forestmen, Dragon Masters, Falcons, Wolfpack, muhahahahaha!

More old castle sets! Down with them purdified KK 2 knights!

Histo-Sci

Shadow · Post by **Shadow** » Sat Mar 18, 2006 4:44 pm

This is a much repeated topic. Haven't any of you considered what LEGO might do after KK2 dies off? I don't mind KK2 that much, seeing as it has provided some nice pieces, and Shadow knights. The only disagreeable thing about KK2 is the discoloration of grey and red, and Jaku. Although most of us are old enough to remember the 'good ole days', when LEGO provided better sets, and more variety, that doesn't mean we have an influence to change TLG's mind on a product that is making them a lot of money.

Get used to it, KK2 will be here for a while, and you'd better enjoy while it lasts.

Sir Kohran · Post by **Sir Kohran** » Sat Mar 18, 2006 5:39 pm

Shadow wrote:This is a much repeated topic. Haven't any of you considered what LEGO might do after KK2 dies off? I don't mind KK2 that much, seeing as it has provided some nice pieces, and Shadow knights. The only disagreeable thing about KK2 is the discoloration of grey and red, and Jaku. Although most of us are old enough to remember the 'good ole days', when LEGO provided better sets, and more variety, that doesn't mean we have an influence to change TLG's mind on a product that is making them a lot of money.

Get used to it, KK2 will be here for a while, and you'd better enjoy while it lasts.

YES! That's exactly what I was trying to say earlier. Lego is not here to make sets that will appeal to a few nostalgic adults. They are here to please the main crowd that they will make the most money off of - kids.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have some of the older sets. I'd like to have a horde of Forestmen, or a regiment of Royal Knights. I'd like a 'gritty' style, with highly realistic armour and colours, and catalogues that showed a rocky, rugged world.

But it's not gonna happen. Not now, anyway.

However, I'm just as happy with bright, fantastical Knights of Morcia as I am with Black Falcons or Dark Forest. But would I - and all of you - really like the same old themes and products done over and over again? No, I'd like something new and different (ie: KK2 and Vikings), even if it might not look as good.

So in the mean time, I will continue to buy Vikings and KK2 - even if you guys think they are unworthy of being Castle's future.

- Matt, who is now pro-KK2 and pro-Vikings

wunztwice · Post by **wunztwice** » Sat Mar 18, 2006 9:05 pm

While I agree with Shadow and Sir Kohran, it doesn't hurt to hope and dream. Althoguh an overposted subject can become tiresome. I am highly interested in what Lego might come up with in 2007 as far as a medieval type theme. But I would be estatic if they tried some sets more like the older sets, which I think we are starting to see, possibly, with the 2006 sets.

Peppermint Pig · Post by **Peppermint Pig** » Sat Mar 18, 2006 9:28 pm

YES! That's exactly what I was trying to say earlier. Lego is not here to make sets that will appeal to a few nostalgic adults. They are here to please the main crowd that they will make the most money off of - kids.

Although it doesn't necessarily prove to one point or another, I would like to see some poll statistics reflecting Lego purchasers and players, and Lego does have the capability to send out a poll once every few years, I think. This isn't including the set rating information the've included with some sets.

I don't like to underestimate the savvy of young Lego buyers, but children are less likely to accurately appraise the quality of their sets compared to those who have been buying for a long time, even though Lego may appreciate their feedback when considering their product strategy. I don't think it can be said absolutely that Lego will outsell its competitors or other toys despite the quality: If Lego is going to sell well at any level of quality or style, then there is no need for Lego to ask people outside the company for what it is they want. Therefore, there is no harm in listening to those who have a discerning opinion of the toy in order to improve the style or quality, and it may result in greater sales. Part of the increase in set prices is based on the market/inflation as a whole, and the fact that a number of people, despite their misgivings about a given series, are fanatical enough and dedicated to buying them anyways, thus sustaining the increase in price with little incentive for Lego to change directions if only looking at it from the financial aspect.

I would assume that Lego has become complacent with business by the numbers and regards profit more highly than it does with other aspects of their products, as good as the other aspects may be. One need only look to two facts: 1. The piece count is shrinking in sets, and 2. Franchise based themes are increasing despite a stated interest by Lego to reduce the number of franchise themes. I would then presume that experimentation is the most noticable cause in their shrinking resources. They've been selling off their Legoland management, and constantly tightening, which seems to be related to multiple issues, including experimentation/franchising, technology upgrades, and/or an employee salary issue.

No, Lego does not have to listen to us. Lego does, however, appreciate the community and therefore employs, at little to no cost, an ambassadorial program to stay in touch with the buyers.

Beyond this, it is defeatist to tell people to stop asking for what they want. There may come a time when Lego is replaced in the market, and the child with less allegiance to the brand is likely to bring about this change, all because older buyers are not the #1 customer and people push the idea that our opinions do not matter. Although I am dedicated to Lego, I can still appreciate what Megablocks is doing. On a side note, I hope that Megablocks continues to push Lego to keep up the quality and lower its prices, though I am concerned that Lego will actively compete by creating Megablocks-like elements and going even further in the KK2 direction.

Blueandwhite · Post by **Blueandwhite** » Sat Mar 18, 2006 11:01 pm

Sir Kohran wrote: YES! That's exactly what I was trying to say earlier. Lego is not here to make sets that will appeal to a few nostalgic adults. They are here to please the main crowd that they will make the most money off of - kids.

You speak as if these positions are incompatible. Lines like Star Wars, Batman, and even Vikings suggest that you can appeal to buyers of all ages. Moreover, KKII has been moving to a more traditional look. I'm not keen on more Legends, or bringing back the 80s, but I do believe that there is room for a more conventional castle line.

If the Vikings line can succeed, using conventional stereotypes, why are you so dead set against LEGO producing a Castle line in this vein? You seem utterly convinced that such a line will fail. Sure, KKI was a flop, but that doesn't mean that there is no desire for a true medieval line. Did it ever occur to you that KKI failed because the sets were poorly constructed and uninspired? KKII has certainly been different, but that isn't to say that there isn't room for something more conventional.

However, I'm just as happy with bright, fantastical Knights of Morcia as I am with Black Falcons or Dark Forest. But would I - and all of you - really like the same old themes and products done over and over again? No, I'd like something new and different (ie: KK2 and Vikings), even if it might not look as good.

I disagree.

I want a good looking product. I'm not inclined to purchase something simply because its new. Quality is very important. Looking at LEGO as a whole, it often seems that more effort has been put into other lines. Star Wars, the Vikings line, and the Town line have featured more intricate and interesting set designs when compared to the likes of KKII. I don't see the appeal of a new line if it doesn't look good.

So in the mean time, I will continue to buy Vikings and KK2 - even if you guys think they are unworthy of being Castle's future.

- Matt, who is now pro-KK2 and pro-Vikings

Matt, I appreciate that you enjoy LEGO's current offerings, ans that you may even prefer KKII over classic castle. Its good that there are young fans out there supporting LEGO's newer products. I am simply suggesting that it is possible to appeal to fans of all ages. You may not support my views (or those of fans like me), but to simply dismiss the desire for a more traditional medieval theme as little more than the rantings of a few nostalgic collectors is a bit harsh.

Lamanda2 · Post by **Lamanda2** » Sun Mar 19, 2006 4:04 am

well said blue and white.

And I still believe that a more "realistic" type castle line would be great,even if they are not the same(forestmen,black falcons,...) just something like it in a way.
They could come up with great sets like a tavern,townhouse,or even a small wizards tower would be nice

But you truly cannot say that TLC will never come up with something like this,because you really cannot tell what the next year will bring,take the newest KK2's,it supprized me that they used a few older-style pieces,I actually do think they want to go back to somewhat "traditional" sets.(hopefully they will fix the declining number of pieces in sets

)

We all do have our own oppinions on the subject,and thats mine

Sir Kohran · Post by **Sir Kohran** » Sun Mar 19, 2006 9:39 am

Very good post, Blueandwhite. You made some excellent points, and I actually agree with most of them. Now, to counter your post...

If the Vikings line can succeed, using conventional stereotypes, why are you so dead set against LEGO producing a Castle line in this vein? You seem utterly convinced that such a line will fail.

Not really. What I said was: 'Lego is not here to make sets that will appeal to a few nostalgic adults. They are here to please the main crowd that they will make the most money off of - kids.' I never actually stated that a conventional castle line would not work, I just said that Lego is not going to create one right now. I actually said I'd like a conventional line: 'I'd love to have some of the older sets. I'd like to have a horde of Forestmen, or a regiment of Royal Knights. I'd like a 'gritty' style, with highly realistic armour and colours, and catalogues that showed a rocky, rugged world.' You seemed to have ignored this. I said that even though I'd like a conventional Castle line, Lego is unlikely to produce one. I never said that I thought it would fail.

I want a good looking product. I'm not inclined to purchase something simply because its new. Quality is very important. Looking at LEGO as a whole, it often seems that more effort has been put into other lines. Star Wars, the Vikings line, and the Town line have featured more intricate and interesting set designs when compared to the likes of KKII. I don't see the appeal of a new line if it doesn't look good.

Okay, I worded that wrong. What I meant was that I'd rather have new, interesting lines, not themes and sets that have all been done before.

Matt, I appreciate that you enjoy LEGO's current offerings, ans that you may even prefer KKII over classic castle. Its good that there are young fans out there supporting LEGO's newer products. I am simply suggesting that it is possible to appeal to fans of all ages. You may not support my views (or those of fans like me),

I do support your views. I said: 'I'd love to have some of the older sets. I'd like to have a horde of Forestmen, or a regiment of Royal Knights. I'd like a 'gritty' style, with highly realistic armour and colours, and catalogues that showed a rocky, rugged world.' I like the old Castle lines. They are part of who I am. Just as before, you seem to have taken the view that I think KK2 and Vikings are the only good lines.

but to simply dismiss the desire for a more traditional medieval theme as little more than the rantings of a few nostalgic collectors is a bit harsh.

Well, I suppose you are right in this respect; my point was a bit blunt. However, I hate to say this, but the majority of people who would like a conventional Castle line are nostalgic. Even they do not mean it that way, that is the way many of them come across. Yes, they have a point, as I -have- stated - the older lines were great, and I'd like to own some of their sets. But the idea of Lego creating a line that was suggested by adults sounds unlikely.

In short, what I am saying is this:

I'd like a conventional Castle line, but Lego is unlikely to produce one, so I think we should stop pining for a line that isn't coming right now and instead focus on what we do have and what we can do with it.

Now, please come back and disagree with my post; this is an enjoyable debate. I like hearing other people's points of view.

- Matt

Slobey · Post by **Slobey** » Sun Mar 19, 2006 9:50 am

Sir Kohran wrote: I'd like a conventional Castle line, but Lego is unlikely to produce one, so I think we should stop pining for a line that isn't coming right now and instead focus on what we do have and what we can do with it.
- Matt

Amen we have to make do with what we have. KK2 has it's redeaming qualities like an excelent bad-guy faction and vikings have awesome torsos and brick beasts.

How about we all say something that we DO like about KK2 for a change. Griping about these lines won't make them go away and is annoying for those of us who actually try to get the most out of today's castle lines

Lamanda2 · Post by **Lamanda2** » Sun Mar 19, 2006 5:46 pm

good point slobey,we really should focus on what we have now,and I do like "some" of the things that KK2 has to offer(more armor overcoats,shadow knight helms,and rectangle shields) I guess I just don't like all the "jolly" colors they put them out in,but simple painting can easily fix that problem

And I love the new vikings,those double bladed axes are great,and the dragons look nice,and not to mention BIG.I don't own any vikings yet though.....but I definately think that TLC has done a great job on them.

Another thing that I always thought would be a great line is Romans,I think a line like that would also bring more interesting pieces as well.

Blueandwhite · Post by **Blueandwhite** » Sun Mar 19, 2006 6:31 pm

Sir Kohran wrote:Well, I suppose you are right in this respect; my point was a bit blunt. However, I hate to say this, but the majority of people who would like a conventional Castle line are nostalgic. Even they do not mean it that way, that is the way many of them come across. Yes, they have a point, as I -have- stated - the older lines were great, and I'd like to own some of their sets. But the idea of Lego creating a line that was suggested by adults sounds unlikely.

That's quite the generalization. The desire for a more conventional line doesn't necessarily imply nostalgia. Furthermore, I don't agree that most adult fans come across as being nostalgic. Wanting a conventional line doesn't automatically imply a desire for modular sets from the 1980s, or the return of the BF or Lion factions.

And if I remember correctly, didn't many AFOLs champion the creation of a Viking line? Many of the train sets, and the Blacksmith's Shop were certainly influenced by adult fans. It seems to me that LEGO is more than willing to listen to its AFOLs. In fact, the shift in KKII to a more conventional look was probably influenced by the many AFOLs who have expressed their dissatisfaction with the current line. Heck, look at this year's sets. The new prints and heraldry are far more conventional than anything in the past few years.

And that's not all. We now have community representatives expressing the thoughts of AFOLs to the parent company. Do you really think that the opinions of AFOLs fall on deaf ears?

No, LEGO will not create a line exclusively for AFOLs. They will however give some consideration to our opinions. Not all of us were thrilled with KKII, year 1, yet most people seem quite pleased with the improvements in the minifigs for year 3. So, why is it so wrong to express a desire for a more conventional line?

In short, what I am saying is this:

I'd like a conventional Castle line, but Lego is unlikely to produce one, so I think we should stop pining for a line that isn't coming right now and instead focus on what we do have and what we can do with it.

I'd like a conventional line as well, and I think we are getting closer than ever with KKII, year 3.

So, my line of thinking is:

Why shouldn't we pine for a line that isn't coming right now? We've asked for Knights in more conventional attire, and lo and behold; we've got them. We asked for traditional heraldry and we got that too. We wanted more foot soldiers and troops to go along with our overabundance of Jellybeans, and we've got Battle at the Pass.

And I'm not sure why so many people on this site are so opposed to others expressing their opinions. We always hear that this line of thinking is redundant, or that the proverbial horse has been beaten to death. If this is the case, then why do these sorts of threads draw so much attention?

One more thing. Not everyone wants to discuss KKII. I'm not a big fan of the line, and haven't really been keeping up with it. If you want to discuss the virtues of KKII, wouldn't it be easier just to start a new thread dedicated to the positive points of that line rather than coming down on those of us who are looking for something different?

Now, please come back and disagree with my post; this is an enjoyable debate. I like hearing other people's points of view.

- Matt

Not a problem. I too enjoy these sorts of discussions.

Later.

Moroder · Post by **Moroder** » Sun Mar 19, 2006 6:42 pm

There's a point I would like to highlight.

Peppermint Pig wrote:
Lego is not here to make sets that will appeal to a few nostalgic adults. They are here to please the main crowd that they will make the most money off of - kids.
Although it doesn't necessarily prove to one point or another, I would like to see some poll statistics reflecting Lego purchasers and players, and Lego does have the capability to send out a poll once every few years, I think.

Very true. I believe that the adults are a big group within the Lego purchasers. However, the kids are tomorrow's AFOLs, so Lego is doing it in the right way, as they always done.

In truth, looks like we aren't talking about the old classics coming back. We are all about a line that brings back the "historical", "realistic" feeling of the classics. "Conventional line", you say? Yeah, that's all.

Peppermint Pig · Post by **Peppermint Pig** » Sun Mar 19, 2006 7:18 pm

Mmm, yes

Despite what people think about bringing back the classics, I think most are in agreement that new sets and factions ought to carry on with the same feel of detail (if not more detail) to the older sets. For those who do like the jellybean, how much of a threshold would you have to seeing them reprint in more thematically garish colors like pink and orange knights? Just a curiosity.