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We want Plumes

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Postby Lord Felix » Tue Jan 09, 2007 3:36 am

Spongey wrote:I like plumes. However, I am not a big fan of them on warring knights. I prefer them on the Spanish Armada, as well as knights who are in more showy, tournament affairs.


Same. I like having plumes if it is a king fighting though. Really stands out. But for avarage knights...

I do, however, want plumes again. Maybe a new shape?
Or the old ones... Black and White or dark red and dark blue (to match the new themes, of course!)
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Postby Baned » Wed Jan 10, 2007 8:42 pm

You know, returning yellow plumes, and making dark blue plumes would fit the new line quite well.
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Postby g2 » Wed Jan 10, 2007 10:55 pm

I would agree that plumes would be nice to have. Especially in all those nice colors that now exist. Like orange, purple and lime green.

I am not saying the whole knight should be that color, just their plume.

Very nice indeed.
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Postby Ianan » Mon Feb 19, 2007 2:14 am

I know tons of KFOL's who want plumes. I want 'em too :cry: PLEASE LEGO!!! :cry: BRING BACK PLUMES! :cry:
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Postby g2 » Mon Feb 19, 2007 4:14 am

Lord Felix wrote:I would really like some black ones...


Weren't the black ones the least common of all the plumes?

I remember someone did some research a couple of years ago (I think on Lugnet) and discovered that the black plumes were the least common.

So I say, bring them back!!!
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Postby architect » Mon Feb 19, 2007 12:45 pm

g2 wrote:Weren't the black ones the least common of all the plumes?

I remember someone did some research a couple of years ago (I think on Lugnet) and discovered that the black plumes were the least common.

So I say, bring them back!!!


Yes, those were the least common feather plumes. They only came in sets 6080, 6073, 6066, 6035, and 1974. The colors in order of rarity are black, blue, yellow, white, and red. Many white plumes were used in Pirates sets. Red plumes were used in almost every castle faction with plumes.

Dragon plumes are more rare as they were in fewer sets. The white dragon plume was only in 6086 and two accessory packs (5059 and 5138).

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Postby Damien » Mon Feb 19, 2007 2:14 pm

A knight without a plume is just another soldier.


Except that nothing about a plume, or lackthereof, says anything about the rank of the warrior. Most historical knights didn't have plumes of any kind. Very few helmets in museums have the knot or ring required for attaching such things, at least.

Without a plume, the knight's helmets are like viking hats without horns: pointless and sad, with holes.


Totally different, though. The Viking helmet looks absurd without horns because the holes in it are gigantic. The holes in the knight's visor are tiny and barely noticable. And even if the regular plume styles came back, which you seem to be advocating, there would still be tiny holes in the sides of the visor. So either way, you won't be happy, according to your complaint.


I don't know why people think "kids these days" are so dumb


Are you presuming to say that if kids don't care about that particular detail, that they're dumb?

Kids may not have changed -that much- in 20 years, but they have changed. There's a lot more vying for their attention, and a lot of sensory overload. Flash-bang gets their attention more in this generation than small details. Consider, for instance, that modelling used to be a popular children's hobby. Now it's a niche hobby and video games are the mother of all entertainment. Small details don't have the same affect they used to. And further, I'm not convinced that plumes ever made -that- much of a difference. I'm sure, just like it would be today, some kids thought they were cool, and some kids lost them within 10 minutes of opening a set, or tossed them because they didn't care, or what-have-you.


When they see the plume-less helmets, they aren't going to get excited


I would say you're quite exactly wrong. Even -I- got excited seeing the visored helmet come back, and I couldn't care less about it's lack of plumage. Do you honestly believe most kids under 12 are going to look at the 'new' helmet (as to them it -would- be new) and say "It's really too bad that helmet doesn't have a plume, or else it would be very cool?" You're dreaming.


those pieces just aren't that cool on their own.


Entirely untrue. The helmets are cool in and of themselves. The plumes are a nice touch, but they don't make or break it. I have a small baggie of plumes that I haven't decided what to do with - and plenty of visored helmets and forestmen hats in use without plumes. They're cool without the plumes, regardless of whether or not you'd prefer the plumes be present.


If they do see plumes in these knew sets, I know they'll instantly realized that the dudes with the plumed helmets are a cut above the regular soldiers.


Why? I never saw it that way as a kid. All the forestmen came with plumes. Didn't make them -all- a cut above. When I was a kid, I saw the knight figures as a cut above the rest because they had the big, visored helmet and the big breastplate. The plume was a detail. A nice detail, but a detail nonetheless.


Take away all the little details and you have nothing left.


Except all the other awesome things about LEGO which made it one of the best toys in existance before plumes existed, and after they were largely abandoned. LEGO is loved by many for a lot more than plumes on one specific helmet.



So sure, I think it would be cool if plumes came back. That would be a great little touch. Do I think it's an absolute must? Not really. The new stuff is going to look great with or without them. And there's certainly plenty to keep me, and I believe virtually every kid out there, interested.
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Postby Lamanda2 » Mon Feb 19, 2007 5:51 pm

And further, I'm not convinced that plumes ever made -that- much of a difference...

Oh but they did, Anthony. :) (In my eyes, at least.)
When my three brothers and I used to all play with our Legos together, I can remember the plumes being quite an important thing to us. It was something you could put on one of your knights that would turn him into the leader of an army.
If he didn't have a plume, he was just 'another soldier'. Sure it really doesn't make sense to us now, but when your a kid, it doesn't have to make sense- The coolest was just better than everybody.

Though maybe younger kids today wouldn't like them as much as we did then. Still, it's that extra detail they can put in, that helps them stand further above those other guys.
I'm not saying that plumes must be put into the new lines, but they should. Why let those little holes in the sides of the helmets go to waste? They did put them they to hold plumes, after all. :wink:

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Postby Damien » Mon Feb 19, 2007 7:22 pm

I'm pretty sure the sides of the helmet, in pictured sets I mean, were ever intended for regular plumes. The only thing I recall ever being put there were the dragon wings.

And I'm certainly not saying that plumes are totally unimportant. Only that they don't have the utmost importance that is being implied here. They're not going to make or break any Castle line.

For me and my friends, when we were young, plumes made no difference at all. 'Leaders' were usually distinguished just by whoever happened to be our favourite minifigs. Particular colour combinations in the body parts, which armour they were wearing, which shield they were carrying, even which weapon they used. Capes, too -- originally the plastic ones, and later the cloth ones. Now that cloth capes are in full swing, which can be used with armour - unlike the plastic ones, it's even better.

My friend Tim, I still remember, used a minifig with all black parts (yellow hands, of course), dark grey armour, dark grey helmet, and black visor - with a falcon shield. We all knew that was his hero character. Didn't need a plume. That was his favourite. He even made a paper cape for him with construction paper. Kids are inventive - and the lack of a plume isn't going to stop kids from having favourite figures, hero characters, leaders, and generals.

So like I said - they're a nice, fun detail. But it's not something that's an absolute requirement, the lack of which will be utterly detrimental to the enjoyment of the line, as Dan is saying.
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Postby Prince Imdol » Mon Feb 19, 2007 7:52 pm

DanDanLegoman wrote:
Baned wrote:-Where are the mounted knights' plumes? :(


Thank you! I thought I was the only one who cared. I really want to see the plumes included!


Yay plumes!. I am hungry!


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Postby wunztwice » Mon Feb 19, 2007 8:58 pm

Hmm, I fortunately grew up with plumes. However I still find myself short everyonce in a while. What I would really like is some NEW styles of simelar plumes!

Also, more yellow feather plumes would be cool (I use them for hay sometimes, and that's very plume consuming...)
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Postby Zacku » Mon Feb 19, 2007 9:15 pm

When I was a kid, I saw the Dragon Plumes as being one of the coolest things ever. Be it on the Dragon master crowns or the hold visors, they were just plain awesome. The normal feathers were cool, but I felt they were better suited to the Forestmen hats. However, IMO, plumes exist to make the helmets complete. That was my main problem with the KKII helmets-lack of plumes.


...of course, I can still just throw some spare plumes on my Castle 2007 soldiers. :wink:
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Postby Lord Felix » Mon Feb 19, 2007 9:54 pm

As someone said above,

"If they don't know anything about them, they will not miss them."

Plumes are just another "little detail" that makes the old legos so cool. I highly doubt it makes helmets "uncool" and "uncomplete" as others have said. I like having the "slots" on helmets, though, because if I want to I could add a plume or two. In the JT sets, Johnny's hat has a slot for a plume, but no plume from the set to fit in it.
My point is, isn't really what we are asking for the slots back? None of the KKII new helmets had plume slots. With the slots, comes the plumes eventually, or we can just buy older ones off sites.

As TFOL and AFOLs, we are asking for something that only in our MOC building perspective is considered useful. I am not saying I don't want plumes back, I do, but I am saying that it is a fallacy to say "All the kids want them," because we are in a time where younger fans grew up with KKI.

I do know, however, that kids want good looking helmets. Last year in November, I entered a lego Contest at a Toy Store (Which I won, of course), and while I was there there were several Castle lego fans that were 10 or 11. They both expressed desire for the old helms and plumes, but they had JUST seen them for their first time right there. If they were to appear now, they would seem new, because (as I said before) most kids grew up with the KKI where there were no plumes.

Hope this wasn't confusing :roll:
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Postby Lamanda2 » Wed Feb 21, 2007 11:39 pm

"I'm pretty sure the sides of the helmet, in pictured sets I mean, were ever intended for regular plumes. The only thing I recall ever being put there were the dragon wings."

Sorry about that, I meant the tops of the helms. :wink:
Putting them on the sides always seemed goofy looking to me.

"And I'm certainly not saying that plumes are totally unimportant. Only that they don't have the utmost importance that is being implied here. They're not going to make or break any Castle line."

Definitely. They aren't something that really needs to be in the new castle sets, though it would be something I would like to see implemented in the future. Seeing new types of plumes and the old ones in the new colors would be nice.

"'Leaders' were usually distinguished just by whoever happened to be our favourite minifigs."

Yeah, and don't get me wrong, not all of our Leaders had to have a plume, it was just one of our favorite things to add to our characters. My one brother for example, always played as the 'bad guys', so his typical leaders wore heavey, dark armor and black dragon helms. Though they did occassoinally have a red plume on their helms, alot of the time he used the cattle horn piece.

"..of course, I can still just throw some spare plumes on my Castle 2007 soldiers."

Yep. I think I'll wind up doing that too, yellow plumes should look quite nice on them.

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Postby Athos » Thu Feb 22, 2007 12:26 am

Oh and I forgot to mention green would be a nice addition too.

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