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Exoforce new 2006

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Postby Bruce N H » Sun Dec 04, 2005 3:23 am

While I may not be planning on running out to buy this line, I have to admit some confusion. Why does this hair promote imagination:

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while this does not:

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?

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Postby MaxiVisVires » Sun Dec 04, 2005 3:53 am

Bruce N H wrote:While I may not be planning on running out to buy this line, I have to admit some confusion. Why does this hair promote imagination:

Image

while this does not:

Image

?

Bruce


I am equally confused. When I was a kid I was using classic space to build my Star Wars ships. And now, there's actual Star Wars sets out there. I would've loved that as a kid. This doesn't cause less imaginative MOC's to be created, but more imaginative. Remember, when building the only limit is the parts in which you have. The more new parts LEGO releases, the better. Now if they would just release more Bardings and Knight Style helmets, I'd be set. :D

I may not like the new Sponge Bob set or what not that comes out... but if LEGO takes the Licoln Log approach in business, it's fan and customer support won't grow.

You should actually take a look at the Exo sets before you burn them down. My wife and I were thinking of getting them as christmas gifts. When you look at the back, they actually have 2 designs in which you can build the set. It's actually pretty cool. See... this is how LEGO promotes creativity, you can always build, you can always change, you can always create with what you have. You can combine your castle and your space and make something all your own. If LEGO wasn't promoting creativity, then all the pieces would be glued together and you would just have your typical plastic paper weight.
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Postby Shadow » Sun Dec 04, 2005 4:11 am

Josh Wedin wrote:good old Danish


hehe, I guess you're right.
Respectfully submitted,

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Postby Blueandwhite » Sun Dec 04, 2005 5:32 am

Bruce N H wrote:While I may not be planning on running out to buy this line, I have to admit some confusion. Why does this hair promote imagination:

Image

while this does not:

Image

?

Bruce


Allthough this question wasn't directed at me, I do feel it is worth some discussion. There is nothing wrong with the new pieces. Heck, there is nothing wrong with modeling your product after a popular trend.

I think Shadow did have a valid point though.

Many of today's sets leave little to the imagination. Every need is simply met with a new mold. With so many specialized elements, todays sets actually lack the versatility that made LEGO so popular with me when I was a child (I won't presume to speak for others). These parts are fantastic if you already have a large collection of basic bricks, but for newer builders, the lack of basic plates tiles and bricks make it impossible to develop great alternate models.

That isn't to say that some sets don't contain a useful assortment of bricks. I'm merely suggesting that in a market where specialized elements are so common, it is far too difficult to build up a collection of useful generic plates and bricks. This is not a new problem, but it certainly is something that shouldn't be scoffed at.

Storylines and Saturday-morning cartoon characters seem to be a device used to hide the fact that these sets often lack an assortment of basic bricks necessary to build new or exciting alternate models. Knight's Kingdom is particularly guilty of this. As AFOLs, this problem may not be significant, but for younger children, it must be quite frustrating.

Too many colours, and too many unique/oddly shaped elements end up being a hindrance to builders.

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Postby The Hordesman » Sun Dec 04, 2005 7:08 am

Kanduu wrote:
Be afraid, be very afraid:


Aughhh!!!!

Yeah... Whatever happened to real cartoons anyway. Does anyone remember Ducktales?


You have never seen Gundam Seed, have you? I agree Ducktales rocked, but seriously, most people here havent seen much anime and therefore cant say they dont like it.

Now, if there are molds and other evil stuff in this it might be a problem. However, what could be a larger problem would be the european line; I would be scared if it did not have all the vulcan cannons and stuff!

Most people wont like the hairs and heads but thats allright. I would gladly want to buy them, especially the blach hairdos! :D

But I have dont know were to stand in the debate about specialized pieces, probably becuase I feel like one of those rich people who dont care about voting for parties good for poor people because they dont like changes, I kind of needed the parts now and Im kind of getting back to mechas and space. Minifig elements isnt my problem, but these has been around since Harry Potter and all that stuff.

Still I wonder if this is good for kids, most mecha animes got an age advisory of 11+... Some even 15+...

I dont think it will survive for so long though(or it will end up like KK2!), but hopefully this may be the start of mecha lines, beyond the old roboriders, spyrion and the newer robot set. :D
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Postby E of Alshire » Sun Dec 04, 2005 1:45 pm

JoshWedin wrote:So, anyway, my take is thus:
1. It is a theme that Lego created on their own (which we have been asking them to do)


While this may be a LEGO created theme, the concept is not.

That said, I don't think these sets promote any less creativity than, say, Vikings, and perhaps even more when you think about how many other Mecha kids are gonna try to make off Gundam or other Anime shows.
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Postby JoshWedin » Sun Dec 04, 2005 2:51 pm

E of Alshire wrote:
JoshWedin wrote:So, anyway, my take is thus:
1. It is a theme that Lego created on their own (which we have been asking them to do)


While this may be a LEGO created theme, the concept is not.

That said, I don't think these sets promote any less creativity than, say, Vikings, and perhaps even more when you think about how many other Mecha kids are gonna try to make off Gundam or other Anime shows.


I don't think these hinder creativity either. However, I do have an issue with your first statement. While I am not an Anime fan, I would challenge you to find any theme where Lego created the concept. Ever since System was created they have been using other people's/company's concepts. Town, Space, and Castle concepts all exists previously. The Adventurers theme is based on Indiana Jones. Rock Raiders deals with the old dig into earth and unleash hideous beast theme. Alpha Team is the Mad Super Villian trying to enslave the earth. The list goes on. What makes this different?

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Postby Blueandwhite » Sun Dec 04, 2005 3:46 pm

I think people are confusing concept with theme. A concept is simply a general notion or idea, which in this instance, is being used to push a product. A theme is the subject arround which a concept may be developed. Castle, Pirates, Space, and Town are simply themes in which LEGO has chosen to develop its concepts. Nobody can claim ownership over a theme. I mean, who can claim authorship over "Castle" or "Pirates"?


As to the matter of 'creativity'...

Creativity is determined by the user of the product, not the product itself. However, where the product is of limited use, the user's creativity may be hindered. For an obvious example, look at your average plastic model kit. Each piece is molded to fit together in a specific way. Sure, the user may alter the model by customizing it, cutting or reshaping various pieces. That still doesn't change the fact that those pieces are somewhat limiting. This can also be applied to LEGO. When the majority of bricks are too specialized, the number of uses becomes somewhat limited. The builder (if he or she doesn't already have a decent collection of basic bricks) despite his or her own creativity, is limited in the number of uses he or she may find for any given brick.

Exo-Force is a line dominated by specialized bricks. This is severly limiting for many aspiring young builders. Even if they choose to build their own mechs, the design is going to be dictated by the overabundance of specialized bricks. I believe that alot of builders overlook the need for basic bricks.
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Postby E of Alshire » Sun Dec 04, 2005 4:35 pm

JoshWedin wrote:What makes this different?


The fact that the chosen theme's populartiy is the selling point of the models.
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Postby Glencaer » Sun Dec 04, 2005 6:06 pm

[quote="Blueandwhite"]As to the matter of 'creativity'... Creativity is determined by the user of the product, not the product itself.[\quote]

I think this is the key point here. Specialized pieces or not (and please remember, bulk bricks are always available in tubs), it is how the kid uses those pieces that informs whether creativity is there or not.

More pieces help creativity by expanding possibilities. If there is one big piece that seems useless, it requires extra creativity to put that piece to use.

And from what I've seen of Exoforce, the pieces are juniorized one use pieces, so this whole line of argumentation is moot.

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Postby MaxiVisVires » Sun Dec 04, 2005 7:57 pm

When the majority of bricks are too specialized, the number of uses becomes somewhat limited


So what? Your solution to this is having LEGO get rid of all it's lines and just concentrate on Creator?

Exo-Force is a line dominated by specialized bricks.


So is Technic... but it seems to be doing fairly well. And the Pirates theme was based heavily on specialized bricks. Come on, if you buy the Black Sea's Barracuda, you weren't going to be building any space ships with the majority of the parts. But still, the Pirates line and that set are some of the greatest LEGO has ever released.

You know, original fans of the 375 Castle could have said the same thing back then when theBlack Knight's Castle came out. That the new set has too many specialized pieces and doesn't inspire creativity. But now looking back at it, both sets have their place in history. Both are great, and while one may have more specialized pieces than the other, it doesn't take anything away from how good of a set it was.

I like specialized pieces. Using them your own way is one of the most creative things you can do. What can you do with LEGO Skateboard ramps that are so specialized? I thought nothing, but there's always someone to prove you wrong. :D
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Postby Blueandwhite » Sun Dec 04, 2005 9:16 pm

MaxiVisVires wrote:
When the majority of bricks are too specialized, the number of uses becomes somewhat limited


So what? Your solution to this is having LEGO get rid of all it's lines and just concentrate on Creator?


I never said anything that would suggest that. Please don't make suggestions on my behalf. Perhaps you should read my posts more carefully before making such a harsh statement.

I like specialized pieces. Using them your own way is one of the most creative things you can do. What can you do with LEGO Skateboard ramps that are so specialized? I thought nothing, but there's always someone to prove you wrong. :D


I also like specialized pieces. Heck, I love specialized pieces. I rely on them heavily when MOCing. And yes, they do allow you to do new and innovative things. Any intermediate builder such as myself relies on a wide variety of elements in their MOCs. I just question the over-abundance of these bricks in certain lines. For me, a great set is characterised by its balance of basic and specialized bricks.
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Postby Glencaer » Sun Dec 04, 2005 10:16 pm

Blueandwhite wrote:
MaxiVisVires wrote:So what? Your solution to this is having LEGO get rid of all it's lines and just concentrate on Creator?


I never said anything that would suggest that. Please don't make suggestions on my behalf. Perhaps you should read my posts more carefully before making such a harsh statement.


Maybe you should try to be clearer when you post. I was starting to come to the same conclusion - with how many times you've brought up "basic bricks" and complained about specialized pieces, and your insistence that too much specialization is really really bad. Remember, it is your job to communicate what you are thinking, not our job to figure it out from your posts.

I'm starting to feel that this thread has turned into a debate rather than a discussion, and that feelings are running hot, so I'm gonna lock it for a few days.

12/5/05 - Unlocked again - remember everyone to keep the discussion civil. A key strategy is to make your case once, and leave it at that. Continually trying to persuade people who fundamentally disagree with you often leads to fighting and bickering.

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Postby JacobS » Thu Dec 08, 2005 12:39 am

Ok, I feel responsible for this, if it weren't for me this thread may have been lost on the bottom of a list and this wouldn't have happened. I didn't mean to start an argument, but I was trying to make my case (and I stand by it too) I will try to refrain from making more harsh (though that is a relative term) comments, and maybe someone could make a new thread continuing this discussion in more broad terms so that the title will match the content (just a thought, if the admins don't want this to continue, it won't. simple as that). well, sorry
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Postby The Hordesman » Fri Dec 23, 2005 12:33 pm

Reviving an old topic, has these sets appeared anywere in europe? I know Americans have showed off the sets on bricklink and so, but I do wonder if they are available stores anywere at all, or will that happen 2006? I can buy them on the web, but I really want to know when the stores get them.

I need them you know...
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