Greek Hoplite Swords: Xiphos and Kopis

[TwoTonic Knight]

Let me split this off from Red's actual Hoplite. I'm not quite sure if I'm complimenting his Hoplite or hijacking it by making my additions the focus, so here they are on their own.

Both are modified standard classic LEGO swords. The major cutting was done with my usual Swiss Army knife, and the cleaning, smoothing, and more subtle shaping was done with 400 grit sandpaper (the black kind).




The final versions of both the Kopis (on left) and the Xiphos (on right).

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A little better side view of the shape of the xiphos.

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A rougher not quite finished kopis, but you can see the shape and angle of the blade better in this photo.

[JPinoy]

That looks great, but I think I'll stick with the standard lt. gray swords for my Greeks. It would take too much time to shape the swords I have.

Not to mention I'd also have to work other swords or even make my own... if I want an accurate looking Kampilan (or Klewang as they're called in Indonesia).

[MaxiVisVires]

Nice work TTK. I like the xiphos the best. Very clean looking custom. How long did it take to make?

[TwoTonic Knight]

Nice work TTK. I like the xiphos the best. Very clean looking custom. How long did it take to make?

An hour or so - I'd pick it up and whittle away for a while and then go do somthing else, so it's kinda hard to say. It was more just looking at it a bit and deciding what else should be done. The blade I knew what I wanted, so it only took a few minutes of cutting. The sanding took a bit longer. The actual crossguard took the most time since I had to turn a rounded object into a squared one and I had a less clear picture in my mind on how to approach it. I could probably do a second one in 30-40 minutes. Once you have a handle on what's needed and a final look, things go a lot quicker.

Those look pretty neat! Are any of those type of swords for sale anywhere?

Well, the base LEGO sword is, but the actual thing you see pictured after modification are the entire world supply so far as I know. I don't have the means to put them into production - perhaps Red Bean may think about doing his own version some day to compliment his other hoplite gear, though I think he made the right choice in electing to do the spear.

That looks great, but I think I'll stick with the standard lt. gray swords for my Greeks. It would take too much time to shape the swords I have.

Just use spears. I only did the swords for my personal satifisfaction - standard LEGO spears will compliment hoplites a lot more than standard Castle swords.

...Kampilan...

It wouldn't be a JP post without the usual non sequitor.

By all means, do a Kampilan. I'm not sure about getting that bifurcated lower grip, the tufts and tassels, and that little doohickey at the front, but the basic shape is easy enough. Squaring off the guard is a pain, but doable from the basic castle sword.

[Formendacil]

Sweet looking swords! They look very LEGO-professional.

Out of curiosity, did you use the PP swords or the ABS?

[TwoTonic Knight]

Sweet looking swords! They look very LEGO-professional.

Out of curiosity, did you use the PP swords or the ABS?

You know, I didn't consider that at all. The kopis seems bendy and the xiphos stiff, so it would seem the former and latter respectively. I'm not sure that I would recommend one over the other beyond the ABS tends to have more of a gloss to it, so sanding puts a little bit of a matte texture to it and the PP flexes more while cutting (I only recall the difference in retrospect - someone else with less experience might have more trouble controlling their cuts, but that's just a surmise on my part).

Time to go do my civic duty and vote. Thank heavens that basketball starts today and political ads end.

[Mr. D]

Wowser! as always. They really look (as Formendacil said) "LEGO-professional".

Please do not let this comment derail the conversation.

Time to go do my civic duty and vote. Thank heavens that basketball starts today and political ads end.

Yes, by all means; vote!


D-man

[Duke_Dave]

I really like the xiphos sword best looks really cool and Greek like.

Dave

[Robin Hood]

Wow, great job there, TTK. Those are great swords. I have a hard time beliveing they are cut. They look so professional. But then you are a proffesional.

Again I must say that those swords rock!

Dan

[JPinoy]

The only ones I armed with swords are the Thracian Heratois (cavalry), and the Mycenaean Myrmidons. *ripped straight out of Age of Mythology*

Correct me if Im wrong... but isn't the Xiphos considered a "Greco-Gaelic" design?

[TwoTonic Knight]

Correct me if Im wrong... but isn't the Xiphos considered a "Greco-Gaelic" design?

I'm not certain how you are using the term "gaelic". Celts from Iberia used the similiar falcata, as did the Etruscans. It is seems likely to me that the Greeks picked it up from one of them rather than independently develop it themselves. Who came up with it first, I don't know, though last I saw the oldest known example is Etruscan.

[The Blue Knight]

Both look wonderful. There's a lot of love gone into the making of those clearly. The result is impressive. Too bad its such a labor-intensive process that obviously discourages any large scale production. Unless of course Jeff or RB are tuning in?

JP, I can see your passion for your "Ancients," and I appreciate that, but I would challenge you to comment on a thread without constant reference to your collection. Honestly, it can be distracting and rather tiresome. Instead, discuss the topic at hand and share your large body of knowledge to add to the discourse. Try to talk about TTK's swords, or RB's design that fueled them without chipping in on the nomenclature of the shape of cavalry feces from the Ming dynasty. Please do start threads to show us your stuff, its all very interesting to me, and an area in which I know very little, and would like to know more.

[doctorsparkles]

without chipping in on the nomenclature of the shape of cavalry feces from the Ming dynasty.

Though now I'm curious about the shape of Ming cavalry feces...
The swords look great. The xiphos reminds me a lot of Sting from Lord of the Rings, though is probably a little large for that. Looking at the side view of the kopis, I have to say that it looks like it might need a little smoothing out, but I like that shape of that one too.

[JPinoy]

I'm not certain how you are using the term "gaelic". Celts from Iberia used the similiar falcata, as did the Etruscans. It is seems likely to me that the Greeks picked it up from one of them rather than independently develop it themselves. Who came up with it first, I don't know, though last I saw the oldest known example is Etruscan.

I was refering to the Xiphos. The pics I've seen of that Falcata and it resembles the Kopis more than the Xiphos. Im refering to the long sword + leaf shaped design of the Xiphos as being somewhat a combo of the straight bladed Keltic long sword + the leaf shaped kopis/falcata.

As for how the Greeks came into contact with Keltic weaponry.... The Greeks some attacks from the Keltic tribes far north of them around 280 BC. But before that the Keltic tribes had invaded other places like Italy and Iberia, but not before they established trade with those civilizations first.

The Greeks themselves used the name of one tribe they knew the Keltoi, as a name for all the other tribes. They've known about the Keltic peoples since around 600 BC as they've established colonies like Massilia near Keltic territories.

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Blue Knight,

I assure you Ming Cavalry feces is no different than the feces of the Greek Heratoi (companion cavalry), or those of the Roman Clibanarii. Or if you want the same time period as the Ming Dynasty which is late Medieval.... the feces of French cavalry.