Don't hate the players, hate the game.

Post by **Bruce N H** » Fri Sep 24, 2004 7:18 pm

I think the whole problem is that there has been a sea change at TLC over the past 5-10 years, best summed up in the change of slogans a year or so ago from "Just imagine . . . ", to "Play on!"

"Just Imagine ... " focuses on the building. "Play on!" focuses on 'excitement'.

"Just Imagine ... " gives us many figs and lets the child invent the story line. "Play on!" spoon feeds a story line to the kids, enforcing not just who is the good fig and who is the bad fig, but also their exact story line. Sometimes this is based on a license.

"Just Imagine ... " can use basic bricks. "Play on!" means you need all sorts of overspeciallized parts.

"Just Imagine ..." involves lots of pieces and takes time to build the main model. "Play on!" only needs a few big molded parts, because the important part is to get past the building process to start "playing".

"Just Imagine ..." would put pictures on the back of boxes of alternate models. "Play on!" often just has pictures of the main model in "action" shots.

"Just Imagine ..." brought us great themes. "Play on!" wastes TLC's attention on things like video games, Galidor, the various Sports lines, etc.

"Just Imagine ..." encourages the child to grow and learn as they stretch themselves. "Play on!" merely attempts to grab market share from video games.

"Just Imagine ... " = classic castle. "Play on!" = really colorful garbage.

Okay, it's not all bleak. There are movements at TLC that fit the "Just Imagine ..." mindset--most notably the Designer line and some of the things that grew out of LEGO Direct (bulk bricks, MOC line, etc), that new house set that recently showed up in European catalogs (when will that hit the US?). Our main problem is that KK2 falls right in the middle of the "Play on!" part of TLC.

Bruce

The Tennis Ball Kid · Post by **The Tennis Ball Kid** » Fri Sep 24, 2004 7:24 pm

Exactly Bruce, as I said earlier there's been a philosophical shift in the company from creative play to a fad toy (e.g. Bionicle), but there are as you said bright points (the house set for one).

Stephen

Post by **Formendacil** » Fri Sep 24, 2004 7:26 pm

Bruce N H wrote:I think the whole problem is that there has been a sea change at TLC over the past 5-10 years, best summed up in the change of slogans a year or so ago from "Just imagine . . . ", to "Play on!"

And "Just Imagine" only started as box slogan in 2000, I think. Before that it say LEGO System.

Although the cosmetic change to "LEGO Just Imagine..." wasn't a bad one, it was kinda of indicative of the things to come.

Still, I get what you're saying.

Post by **Bruce N H** » Fri Sep 24, 2004 8:31 pm

By gum, you're right. When I first put up my website I tried to scan all my box covers (I've since given up on that idea), so I just did a quick slideshow through the scans I had and don't see any "Just Imagine"'s prior to 2001. I could have sworn it said that on my old sets, but I guess no. Did they just start using that as a company slogan in 2000? Or was that only when they put it on boxes? I could still swear I saw this slogan somewhere in the past (old catalogs maybe?).

Bruce

jon_p · Post by **jon_p** » Fri Sep 24, 2004 8:39 pm

I agree with all that Bruce has said about "Just Imagine" and "Play on".

If we got some classic sets we could imagine, like we used to be able to. We could make another version of the set, make our own stories, and have fun playing with the set.

Now (aka KK2) we can.. well, not much choice of pieces so we can't change them around, the figs are so... so.. ______ (I'll let you fill in this!

) that we can't do anything different to the story line we are given, 5 vs 1.. what the Megablocks are kids supposed to do??
Hmm lets see, goodies beat baddies, I'm bored, I'm gonna get some crisps (chips) and play computer games rather than expanding my imagination.

Jon.

Post by **Formendacil** » Fri Sep 24, 2004 8:42 pm

Bruce N H wrote:By gum, you're right. When I first put up my website I tried to scan all my box covers (I've since given up on that idea), so I just did a quick slideshow through the scans I had and don't see any "Just Imagine"'s prior to 2001. I could have sworn it said that on my old sets, but I guess no. Did they just start using that as a company slogan in 2000? Or was that only when they put it on boxes? I could still swear I saw this slogan somewhere in the past (old catalogs maybe?).

Bruce

Yeah, I was really ticked when they changed it at the time. I missed "System". Much the same as the recent change to "Play On". Still, at least it was in the original spirit of things.

Jojo · Post by **Jojo** » Fri Sep 24, 2004 9:22 pm

Hello!

Formendacil wrote:Yeah, I was really ticked when they changed it at the time. I missed "System". Much the same as the recent change to "Play On". Still, at least it was in the original spirit of things.

Hehe, I even wrote an angry letter to TLC because I missed the "Legoland" on the boxes... Back then... in 1991. "System" only came in 1992 and it didn't make up for the cosy Legoland. "System" for me sounded so cold and technical.

Nowadays I would be very glad if any system was identifiable in TLC's releases.

Bye
Jojo

Post by **Formendacil** » Fri Sep 24, 2004 9:26 pm

Jojo wrote:Hehe, I even wrote an angry letter to TLC because I missed the "Legoland" on the boxes... Back then... in 1991. "System" only came in 1992 and it didn't make up for the cosy Legoland. "System" for me sounded so cold and technical.

Well, if I'd been around then, I'd have been ticked too. But I only actually had one box (now long gone

) that's from the Legoland era, and I got it in 1993, so it never really bothered me. At the time, anyway.

Post by **Robin Hood** » Fri Sep 24, 2004 9:32 pm

Oh man, I know Just Imagine is older than 2001. Let me check some catalogues...........aarrgh. I can't find it. But I know its there somewere.

Dan

SirBardatheBuilder · Post by **SirBardatheBuilder** » Sun Oct 24, 2004 10:44 pm

It's not really aimed toward you. So relax, and don't pay KK2 any mind. I will. I love it.

Norro · Post by **Norro** » Thu Oct 28, 2004 12:10 am

While the greys may go beyond the designer the 'horse cars' (which should be entered into the comp as futuristic by someone who likes irony) are UNexcusable...

Nathan

quiksand · Post by **quiksand** » Fri Nov 05, 2004 8:23 pm

Oh megablocks, where to begin.....
First the fact that many of you have made comments about how video games are a cause for loss of interest in Lego and the cause of short attention spans proves how out of touch with reality some of you are. No wonder TLC won't listen to AFOL. I've always had a love for Lego since first receiving them when I was five. I also loved my Nintendo, and every other game system I've bought since.(HALO FOREVER) They build on one another. I have made many MOC's based on The Legend of Zelda. Now I'm doing Fable. And I'm sure many of you have similar experince. What if someone said movies like Lord of the Rings was the cause? All the AFOL would be offended. The fact is, young kids want whats cool, because every youg kid sees himself as cool. And a couple of design nerds from TLC are going to have a hard time getting in touch with what's cool. But AFOL aren't going to help by knocking what the vast majority of young(and older) kids think is cool, ex: video games. I agree with almost all of the KK2 bashing, they deserve it. But don't knock what could be an untapped mine of insparation for old and young alike(RPG games). Second, I vividly remember what being very young was like, and my opinions about toys have never changed. If I was 5 or 6 now I would still know that most of the KK2 line sucked, but I know I would also think that Vladek's Attack Kit was a killer-cool set.(minus the @#$%*&@ power rangers) Also, I am a mid 20's AFOL, possibly like the TLC designers. Except I hated the real power rangers then, and THEY must have loved them. But they were probably real nerds, like I said. The point is give the young kids some credit. They know whats up. Do you REALLY think only adults are the reason they sold out of Vladek's Seige Engine????

JPinoy · Post by **JPinoy** » Sat Nov 06, 2004 10:39 pm

As far as Lego -vs- Video/Computer games go....

People like myself get influenced by video/computer games when it comes to my Lego building. Take my Ancients Theme and Military Theme for example. You can say that Age of Empires/Kings/Mythology, Fate of the Dragon, the whole Total War series have influenced me in creating my Ancients Theme.

The Command & Conquer series, particularly C&C:Generals, + military shooter games like the Delta Force series, RainbowSix series, Ghost Recon, and now Kuma\War has influenced my creation of my Military Theme.

However, games aren't the only inspirations. Real life and history are even more influencial in shaping how these themes go.

Okay... enough of using myself as an example... take this German dude who owns CNC Bricks where he converts C&C vehicles into Lego form. Others have HALO 2, and Counter-Strike made into Lego form. Point is.... Video Games don't necessarily take away from Lego. Video games can sometimes enhance some's creations, which is no different than you guys looking through a history book and looking at pics of Castles and making them into Lego creations.

As far as KK2, goes... I keep saying that you just have to find a use for them. If you don't think those swords look like Euro swords well then... create a Chinese type faction for your Castle world as the Chinese did have swords that had hilts, though not as big, pointing towards the handle. I know they're not the only ones with odd looking swords. Im not sure who else, but research can give you some ideas.

I also don't understand why some people who concern themselves so much about history barely get out of Western and Central Europe. I rarely see anyone make a Middle East faction, be it Saracen, Turk, or Moor. The Mongols attacked Eastern Europe, yet no Mongol nor Hungarians, Polish knights/hussars, or Romanians. The Vikings raided the continent, and those guys are from Northern Europe... and few people have any Ulfsarks, or Bersarks running around pillaging medieval villages. The Byzantine Empire was around throughout most of the middle ages till the late 1400s... yet I hardly remember anyone making anything Byzantine.

If you don't like the colorful KK2 knights, and brasso-ing the armor is too much of a hastle... then simply make the knight mostly black or some other dark color. That way the armor's bright color can be either drowned out or balanced with the darker color parts of the fig.

MaxiVisVires · Post by **MaxiVisVires** » Sat Nov 06, 2004 10:57 pm

I have to agree with JP on this one. I too use video games for inspiration. Wether it's the Age of Empires series, Total Wars, or even Lords of the Realm 2 (greatest game ever!). I take bits from each. Even in EQ or DAoC or WoW, I take stuff from them when customizing. I don't think video games take away from LEGO whatsover. If anything it adds to it. Last week at LEGOLand CA you'd see kids playing the LEGO video games having a great time. I tried my hand at the KK2 gameboy game and I did a whole lot of sucking. But to me, this helps the imagination by establishing a story line that compliments the toys. Just like the books and the movies, it sets that spark needed to create... to let your imagination run wild. When Star Wars episode 3 comes out, the same kids that buy the LEGO will be buying the video games and other toys.

For KK2, yea, the Jelly Bean Knights aren't great, and I won't use much of anything for normal everyday building. But for customizing... it's the greatest thing ever. It gives me a plentiful amount of cheap fodder at my disposal. And though I wish there was common troops to build armies with, I like the fact that I can pick up colorful euro armor that I'm gonna paint anyways for 75 cents each.