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Discussion of official LEGO Castle Theme sets and products

Postby Heir of Black Falcon » Thu Nov 13, 2008 8:12 am

I think Lego shows the forest women on a few occasions in the set with weapons. I have the box but it’s at home sadly so I cannot say for sure.

http://www.1000steine.com/brickset/images/6071-1.jpg

This is the box cover; she has a quiver on and a bow behind her. I think she has the spear and the back of the box I think she has some arm as well.

The instructions also show her with the quiver
http://www.peeron.com/scans/6071-1/2

Bottom picture she has a spear
http://www.peeron.com/scans/6071-1/1

So my guess is that we cans safely place her as a fighter.

I think part of it is traditionally women tend not to be the fighters in most cultures, even today the UK military is made up greatly of men, though we have both it seems more appealing to males. That’s not to say they do not fight only that historically and contemporarily not predominantly. In the medieval period all males were obligated by law to be ready to fight and own weapons and armour. Women seem to be involved by necessity not obligation.

In fantasy it is not far off. I think you see more females in conflict situation now in fantasy but still by in large males in Fantasy outnumber women from what I have seen in most fantasy series, books etc with a few exceptions. I think in the end this affects most lines of toys etc. Might never be as many women warrior figs in Lego but it might be a quality verse quantity issue. :D

That said I am the last to not want a female fighter character in Lego. Many of the princess figures over the years have been made up at one point or the other to fight. In the end getting more female characters in Castle sets is the first big move..... Whether fighters or not is not an issue in the end, easy to place a weapon, shield and helm on them as any fig.

The chainmail fantasy chicks are not gone. Surprisingly it seems a great deal of women still like propagating it. I do living history re-enactment and got invited to a fantasy group’s event not long ago…. Quite a few could have qualified as what many stereotype as a fantasy female warrior. While everyone was nice and some of it was fun I think I’ll stick to reality… or history…. or whatever.

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Postby natelite » Thu Nov 13, 2008 12:58 pm

mog likes a manly woman... :lol: but seriously...lara croft types are fictional. you won't get a sexy, deadly woman ever.
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Postby Crusader » Thu Nov 13, 2008 2:58 pm

Here's some advice: be sure to have your browser filters in place before typing "fantasy warrior woman" in your Google image search.

It does appear times have changed. Women warriors it seems have opted out of chainmail bras and gone for sturdier materials like silk and sheer linen.
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Postby Username » Thu Nov 13, 2008 3:05 pm

Crusader wrote:Here's some advice: be sure to have your browser filters in place before typing "fantasy warrior woman" in your Google image search.

It does appear times have changed. Women warriors it seems have opted out of chainmail bras and gone for sturdier materials like silk and sheer linen.


And leather with 'strategic' cut outs.

:lol:
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Postby Karalora » Thu Nov 13, 2008 5:08 pm

Heir of Black Falcon wrote:In the end getting more female characters in Castle sets is the first big move..... Whether fighters or not is not an issue in the end, easy to place a weapon, shield and helm on them as any fig.


And swapping out their "skirts" for some practical legs.

The chainmail fantasy chicks are not gone. Surprisingly it seems a great deal of women still like propagating it. I do living history re-enactment and got invited to a fantasy group’s event not long ago…. Quite a few could have qualified as what many stereotype as a fantasy female warrior.


I'm talking about the way female fighters are usually depicted in contemporary fantasy novels, not Boris Vallejo paintings or convention cosplay. And not those repulsive MMORPG's that give male sprites functional-looking armor but female sprites "armor" that resembles fetish gear, with an exposed midriff and thighs. All that stuff is a very specific kind of "fantasy," if you know what I mean nudge nudge wink wink say no more!
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Postby Sir Dano » Thu Nov 13, 2008 5:49 pm

On topic: The alternate facial expression on the queen screams "We are not amused." :lol:

Off topic: While I am a huge fan of both Fantasy style and "fantasy" style warrior women, when it comes to a fight, I'd rather have the fully armoured one at my back, which is why all of my female figs wear full armour, and not Slave Leia bikinis.
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Postby Karalora » Thu Nov 13, 2008 6:36 pm

Sir Dano wrote:Off topic: While I am a huge fan of both Fantasy style and "fantasy" style warrior women, when it comes to a fight, I'd rather have the fully armoured one at my back, which is why all of my female figs wear full armour, and not Slave Leia bikinis.


I'm finding attitudes like that to be the rule around here rather than the exception. It's a pleasant surprise, given what I'm used to from the male-dominated online spaces that I've visited.

(Is there a better place we can talk about stuff like this? I hate dragging threads off-topic.)
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Postby Sir Dano » Thu Nov 13, 2008 6:41 pm

Karalora wrote:(Is there a better place we can talk about stuff like this? I hate dragging threads off-topic.)

Perhaps somebody could start a thread about it in the Medieval Life sub forum?
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Postby Quickblade22 » Thu Nov 13, 2008 6:55 pm

(Is there a better place we can talk about stuff like this? I hate dragging threads off-topic.)


Or you could enter the CC chat :wink:

I just wanted to give my 22 cents about this fig. When I first saw it I immeadiatly thought of Queen Elizabeth in the old Erroyl Flynn movie The Seahawk. I'd most likely use her in a Pirate theme rather than a Castle theme, though she would be great for both. The print on the back side is what I like the most. I like the fact that they decided to go this route with such an important fig. Of course the excitement of which set she will be in fun too.
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Postby Mog » Fri Nov 14, 2008 7:27 am

natelite wrote:mog likes a manly woman... :lol: but seriously...lara croft types are fictional. you won't get a sexy, deadly woman ever.


Oh believe me. A "Lara Croft" figure would be the last thing I'd want. That would just be switching from male-dominated sets designed to be appealing to boys to female-dominated sets designed to be appealing to (slightly older) boys. But what about sets designed to appeal to girls? I'm not talking about busty warrior babes here, just stronger and more prominent female characters who do more than just sit around waiting to be rescued.

I guess the beauty of LEGO is that a girl could create that story herself - just snap a sword into the princess's hand, and call it a day! - but it'd be nice if LEGO did more to encourage it. I'm personally of the opinion that LEGO shouldn't need "characters," but if characters are going to exist, there should at least be characters to appeal to everyone. Just IMO.
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Postby Karalora » Sat Nov 15, 2008 3:21 am

Mog wrote:Oh believe me. A "Lara Croft" figure would be the last thing I'd want. That would just be switching from male-dominated sets designed to be appealing to boys to female-dominated sets designed to be appealing to (slightly older) boys. But what about sets designed to appeal to girls? I'm not talking about busty warrior babes here, just stronger and more prominent female characters who do more than just sit around waiting to be rescued.


I could not have put this better myself. It is a source of endless frustration to me that even female heroes aren't really intended for the entertainment of the females in the audience. (Notice when I mentioned female warriors, how quickly it jumped to chainmail bikinis.)

I guess the beauty of LEGO is that a girl could create that story herself - just snap a sword into the princess's hand, and call it a day! - but it'd be nice if LEGO did more to encourage it.


Exactly. Imagination is wonderful, but sometimes it needs a little nudge. Kids take a lot of cues from the way their toys are presented to them by the manufacturers, and the younger ones aren't likely to make up ideas out of whole cloth.

I'm personally of the opinion that LEGO shouldn't need "characters," but if characters are going to exist, there should at least be characters to appeal to everyone. Just IMO.


I wouldn't call the figures in the current Castle line "characters" per se. They don't have names, for one thing.

I think what particularly irks me about the Princess in particular is the supplementary information about her from the LEGO website:

If a brave and handsome knight doesn’t get here to rescue me soon, I’m escaping on my own!

The King’s only daughter is beautiful and brave, but a little headstrong. When the Evil Wizard captured her, she tried to escape so many times that he had to lock her in the Skeleton Tower. Now she waits for a hero to come to her rescue…if she doesn’t get away herself first!


This comes across as a token effort to make her seem like a strong and independent female character, but the "canon," so to speak--the images on the box and in the instructions for the Skeleton Tower--depict a straightforward damsel-in-distress scenario. If she managed to escape before, why are we only becoming privy to her story now that she's in over her head? If there's even a chance she could still break out on her own, why is she waiting for a hero to rescue her at all? It just seems like the "brave and headstrong" stuff was tacked on after the fact, as a sop to the more enlightened people who prefer a little gender equality in their fantasy.
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Postby Heir of Black Falcon » Sat Nov 15, 2008 7:49 am

Karalora,

More enlightened.... come on Karalora this is getting a bit on the soapbox side is it not. Most of us here clearly have agreed it'd be nice for TLC to make some more female fighter figs but I think you are getting a bit carried away.

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Postby princess_storm » Sat Nov 15, 2008 10:15 am

I like the new queen, it's good to have a slightly older female figure who isn't mcgonagall from harry potter, or a witch - I'm a bit fed up with always having the queen in my mocs look about 20 years younger than her husband :)

on the other discussion in this thread - yes it does frustrate me the way that lego is aimed at boys so much. I had tonnes of 'normal' and technic lego as a kid, and it annoyed me a bit that I was seen as a tomboy because of this. However, it annoyed me even more that the girls' lego at the time was paradisa - which was only a step away from barbie in my eyes :evil: :lol:
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Postby Sir Kohran » Sat Nov 15, 2008 12:23 pm

More enlightened.... come on Karalora this is getting a bit on the soapbox side is it not. Most of us here clearly have agreed it'd be nice for TLC to make some more female fighter figs but I think you are getting a bit carried away.


No, I think he/she(?) makes some good points. Particularly the last one:

This comes across as a token effort to make her seem like a strong and independent female character, but the "canon," so to speak--the images on the box and in the instructions for the Skeleton Tower--depict a straightforward damsel-in-distress scenario.

This sort of occurred to me too when the website was first put up - she's made out to be a 'tough girl' (in a casual and frankly lazy way). But in the actual set she is an unarmed girl with a scared expression who has to be rescued by the 'ubermacho' knight - no sign of any of the independence or daring in the online description (and no sign of exactly how she will escape a cage, a wizard and a fire-breathing dragon on her own either). They seem to want to have it both ways.

Bring back Princess Storm :P

And not those repulsive MMORPG's that give male sprites functional-looking armor but female sprites "armor" that resembles fetish gear, with an exposed midriff and thighs.


Too true :? Some of the female blood elf outfits in World of Warcraft look ridiculous.

However, it annoyed me even more that the girls' lego at the time was paradisa - which was only a step away from barbie in my eyes


They might have been a bit too pink :oops: but I thought it was nice that some genuine minifig sets were being made for girls. All there is now is Clickits; I wish Paradisa had lasted.


But I think this is getting somewhat off-topic :o Do we know how this queen fig will be released yet?
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Postby Username » Sat Nov 15, 2008 2:50 pm

Sorry, but I bet Lego has done research time and time again that says more boys prefer Lego than girls. So it would make sense to do what Lego is doing.

What next? Do you want Barbie to have more masculine male characters to make it more boyish?

:roll: :lol:
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