"Guardians of the Gray Castles" (Black Falcons)

Post by **davee123** » Fri Jun 25, 2004 2:10 am

So, out of curiosity, I was checking around through my old catalogs and boxes to check out backstories and whatnot. Oddly enough, it looks like Lego didn't seem to have a name for the Crusader or Black Falcon factions (at least not in 1989):

"The Battle for LEGOLAND Castle"
Forestmen, Black Knights and Guardians of the Gray Castles! Who will rule in LEGOLAND Castle? There are 11 sets including the NEW Forestmen's River Crossing and Knight's Challenge.

The catalog only shows *one* gray castle-- Black Falcon's Fortress... so I can only assume that the Black Falcons are indeed "Guardians of the Gray Castles". I think I'll stick with "Black Falcons"

Other odd tidbits:

In a 1993 catalog, it shows Dragon Masters, Wolfpack, and Black Knights sets, each with the name of their faction, and a the crest of their faction. Only problem is that the Black Knight crest is shown as the classic lion emblem of the Crusaders... They show the crests again in a 1994 catalog, only the Black Knight emblem of the oval shield is pictured within a triangular crest...

In a '97 catalog, it shows a triangular shield divided into 4 parts, 2 of which have crests in them. The crests pictured? The Crusader emblem and the triangular Black Knight emblem-- neither of which appeared in any '97 sets (although the Black Knight shield does appear once in Dark Forest Fortress, which is pictured in the 97 catalog)

Good quote from a 1995 S@H catalog:
"Get ready fo many happy afternoons defending the Fire Breathing Fortress."

And of course the best quote from a 1997 S@H catalog (not for a castle set, but a Primo set):

"Chug, chug!" "Choo-choo!"
The sounds your child makes while building and pushing this play train are half the fun.

Honestly, more like the sounds your child makes at his first frat party, in a drunken pie-eating contest. "Chug, chug! Chew, chew!"

DaveE

Mr. D · Post by **Mr. D** » Fri Jun 25, 2004 1:35 pm

Interesting. Thanks a lot!

Snoopy · Post by **Snoopy** » Fri Jun 25, 2004 4:27 pm

Interesting. Black Falcons and Crusaders got their names from the titles of some of their sets. I've noticed pirate errors too.

Green Fox · Post by **Green Fox** » Fri Jun 25, 2004 5:36 pm

What happened to those really thick and short catalogues they made until 1998/9 that had the little descriptions of the set?

Post by **Formendacil** » Fri Jun 25, 2004 8:09 pm

Sigh....

*Disappears into a nostalgic gaze*

For years those catalogues were almost my favourite thing about Lego, I spent almost as much time looking over them as playing with the sets I got them with.

Then 1999 came, and the catalogues turned crappy. I started playing with Lego more. I was more content.

Then 2004 came, and I joined CC. Nostalgia for the past set in. I stopped playing as much.

Jojo · Post by **Jojo** » Fri Jun 25, 2004 9:03 pm

Hello!

This is the official We-want-back-nice-catalogues-thread?
And yes, we want.

You are right, back then the factions didn't have any pretold names. The little stories in the catalogues just were meant to give an idea, not to tell you how to play with the sets, no good and evil was preselected. The term "Crusaders" was taken from one single mention in a catalogue from the early 90's. But everybody takes this name as if it was God-given...

Bye
Jojo

I am not a Crusader.

Post by **davee123** » Fri Jun 25, 2004 9:34 pm

So, you said that back then they didn't have pretold names-- did Black Falcons ever later get referred to as "Black Falcons" (or anything else?) at any point later on, other than "Guardians of the Gray Castles"?

I kinda wonder whether other countries/languages might have had names for them (or phenomenally different names when translated). I know I got a good kick out of seeing the British name for Willa the Witch: "Hubble Bubble". Made me think of Hubba Bubba Bubble Gum....

Also was interesting to see that even in some of the Canadian catalogs, sets had different names than the US names. I wonder when set names started being more consistant....

DaveE

Jojo · Post by **Jojo** » Fri Jun 25, 2004 10:16 pm

Hello!

davee123 wrote:So, you said that back then they didn't have pretold names-- did Black Falcons ever later get referred to as "Black Falcons" (or anything else?) at any point later on, other than "Guardians of the Gray Castles"?

Since I don't have good knowledge about non-German catalogues I don't know.

I kinda wonder whether other countries/languages might have had names for them (or phenomenally different names when translated).

In German catalogues the only name mentioned in "Classic Castle" times (before 1992) is "Robin Hood". Guess whom for.
In those little stories on the Castle pages they also mentioned Ivanhoe and Prince Valiant, but not as names for the one or the other faction but only as a little suggestion.

Also was interesting to see that even in some of the Canadian catalogs, sets had different names than the US names. I wonder when set names started being more consistant....

Sets have different names in every different country-specific catalogue. We must not forget it's not necassarily TLC themselves that writes those catalogues but some advertising agencies. At least the anglophone catalogues show differences. In UK sets have not the same names as in the US. However, because Lugnet is located in the US the Lugnet-database and its set names rule the international set-name-scene....

In Germany 6080 for example is not called "King's Castle" (or "Königsburg") but just "Large Castle" as opposed to 6073 "Small Castle". No faction names, no nothing.

Only when TLC discovered there's an international internet community they started to seize the suggestions given by those fans also relating to community-wide known and used faction names. The 6074-rerelease was called "Burg des Schwarzen Falken" in the Shop-at-Home catalogue (Castle of the Black Falcon). Originally the set was called "Ritterschloß" (~ "Knights' Castle", yes, 6074).

Bye
Jojo

Webrain · Post by **Webrain** » Sat Jun 26, 2004 12:04 am

Just to make Jojo points more stornger, when I started searching the internet for LEGO castle about 4 years ago, I encountered so many different names in different languages.

Great example for names like for the BFF (6074) is:
Castle Draco and the Black Knight
http://www.brickset.com/search.aspx?Set=6074-1

Let me refer you to this link where you can easily find alot of other names for castle sets:
http://user.cs.tu-berlin.de/~tom/castle.crites.txt

And Jojo did make a point that beside the name Robin Hood, none other name was presented till 1992. I (and some others) don't even consider the old Lion theme as Cruseders (cause there really a reason to), we just refer to them as Lions. As for the Falcons, they only got this name cause of the BFF which otherwise we would refer them as 'Eagles' or maybe even Black Knights. Even the Black Knight name for the 'Black Knights' poped up only because 6086 name was change from Dungoen Master's Castle.

I guess in Internet days we can have a world wide names but for the sets before more then years ago.... let's call it pick what suits you best

Post by **Robin Hood** » Sat Jun 26, 2004 3:52 am

I know what you mean. I used to call BF eagles until I joined up with CC. I also called Crusaders Lions too.

In the 1994 catalogue, it shows a picture of a guy from each type of castle. It had Magisto for Dragon Masters, a wolfpack guy for the wolfpack, and a Dragon Master soilder for the Black Knights. And then there is the Royal Knight set "Royal Drawbridge" that has a Dragon Masterish guy with a Black Knight Shield. And then the Dark Forest set that has the balck Knight shield, is he a Black Knight or a Dragon Master?

Jojo · Post by **Jojo** » Sat Jun 26, 2004 9:47 am

Hello!

@Yaron:
Thanks for this great link! Finally I learn something about this 1590/1596 thing.

As for the "Black Knights": How questionable those classifications are is made evident by this name "Black Knights". In the Lugnet database even set 6035 (Castle Guard) is labled "Black Knights". That's plain wrong without a doubt. The only reason for this classification would be that there is a "black" knight in this set. Now, a knight wearing black clothes and armour, just the typical black knight none joust is even imaginable without. A "black Falcon" knight he is nonetheless.

@Robin Hood (and his merry men):

From their look I'd classify those guys as Dragon Masters.

They (LEGO) tried to make figures as multifarious and variegated as possible. Even in the older days you can find differently assembled Lion knights (Crusaders) in almost every different set. They played with leg-colour, crests on the minifigs' breasts (axes or lion), different coloured helmets, helmet types, cape or no cape, weaponry and shields... And all of them were clearly recogniseable as Lion Knights/Crusaders. Same goes for Black Knights/Dragon Knights (6085/60869). They even tried it with Eagle Knights/Black Falcons with different coloured legs, so we have some with a red hip and two with black/grey legs in 6057. At least it's possible to assign any mounted knight to a certain set. Except the black knight from 6073/6085/6060....

Later on it seemed not possible anymore to play with leg colours and such when it came to Dragon Masters. Each type of torso was distinctively "glued" to its own leg colour. It was possible to change the helmets and the colour of plumes, though, but that's it. So - to cut a long story short - they possibly tried to variegate the appearance of the DM figs by adding a different shield to them.

Bye
Jojo