Lego Knights history

[dyntar]

I've been kind of an on/off castle collector.. since the 80's..just buying bits and pieces that I think would look good in a castle diorama.. [that i now dont have room for ]
I was just wondering if there if anyone knows the history of the castle range or knows where I can find it? Or even if anyone has tried to create one..

What made me think about it was that all of the mid 90's to now, factions of knights have just sort of disappeared. Two or three years and they are gone. The old sets had factions slowly die out or join forces. I bought 2 classic sets recently one has the falcons attacking the black dragons the other set is a ship with has both falcons and black dragons as crewmen.. When did they join forces?? and why?

It made me curious as to know who defeated who.. who fought who..victors.. losers.. Which Lego figure was concidered the leader of each side etc..... anyone know?

[LEGOFREAK]

Marketing?

The older sets never really had a "history". That was half the fun (for me anyway). You could come up with your own story line. Heck, they never even had names. Even the dragon masters and the dark knights you never knew who was good or bad. Were the wolfpack evil renegades/theives or were they rebels trying to bring down a corrupt king?
I think that all changed around the time of the jelly bellies.
then you had a premade story, that lasted through a couple of lines.
I am interested in the newer castle line with the trolls, dwarves and such, but I would like to see a return of heraldry in the sets. It'd be nice to see other factions fighting the trolls besides the crownies as well as maybe hving them fight against the crownies.

[Jojo]

Hello!

It made me curious as to know who defeated who.. who fought who..victors.. losers.. Which Lego figure was concidered the leader of each side etc..... anyone know?

Please let me thank you for not using the terms "good guys" and "bad guys"! Because those are categories that definitely don't apply to any faction prior to the Fright Knights. As for who fought who: It all depends on your style of playing. Naturally having two factions (like, let's say: Black Falcons and Crusaders*) offers you the possibility to have them fight each other. At the same time sets like 6021 (jousting knights) and 6067 (Inn) shows them living alongside each other, acting un-inimically. In the same way Falcons and Dragons seem to combat each other in 6059, while the Falcons are like passengers on the Dragons' ship 6057. It's all up to you. Everybody is invited to develop their own story line, and there likely ain't two story lines that are completely the same.

I have to say, though, that Lego themselves seem have to be in favour of the Lion knights (Crusaders*). They got the bigger castles, the better siege weapons and the larger quantity of sets and men. However, that doesn't necessarily mean they won.

*) While "Crusaders" isn't the official name for the Lion knights, either.


Bye
Jojo

[wallgorn]

Brickpedia.com kind of gives some background lore to the LEGO Castle factions from the 80s and 90s. I've created my own faction called the Knights' Alliance. It is made up of the Black Falcons, the Crusaders (Lion Knights), the Black Knights, the Forestmen, the Royal Knights, Dark Forest, the Crown Knights, and three factions that I've created. I have an order of paladins, an order of death knights, like the Knights of the Ebon Blade from Wrath of the Lich King, and a Scottish clan that I created.

[davee123]

While "Crusaders" isn't the official name for the Lion knights, either.

I dunno-- while I agree that there isn't an "official" name, "Crusaders" is the only name I've ever seen used to describe them collectively by the Lego company in English (used at the end of the faction's lifespan). Hence, I think it's as close as we'll get to an official name. I expect that "Lion Knights" is definitely unofficial since it's never even used once in any Lego documentation of which I'm aware. Has it ever actually appeared somewhere?

Out of curiosity, what official names have been given to this faction? I see:

- "Crusaders" (US 1992 catalogs)
- "Leeuwenhart Ridders" ("Lionheart Knights", Netherlands 1992 catalog)
- "Ritter" ("Knight", German 1991 catalog)
- "De kasteel beowners" ("The Castle Dwellers", Netherlands 1991, 1990 catalogs)
- "Gens de Chateau" ("The People of the Castle/Manor", Netherlands 1990 catalog)

Any others?

There's also a somewhat ambiguous mention of "Guardians of the Gray Castles" in a 1989 US catalog. Its use seems to imply that it's referring to the Black Faclons (which is seemingly another fan-invented faction name, except arguably for ONE mention of the "Black Falcon coat of arms" in a description of Black Falcon's Fortress in the 1990 S@H catalog). However, it's possible that the description "Guardians of the Gray Castles" is in reference to the Crusaders as well, or to BOTH the Crusaders and Black Falcons, since it's not clear to whom the name refers.

DaveE

[Barbrickian]

While "Crusaders" isn't the official name for the Lion knights, either.

I expect that "Lion Knights" is definitely unofficial since it's never even used once in any Lego documentation of which I'm aware. Has it ever actually appeared somewhere?

Referring to them as Lion Knights could get confusing as well since there are also these knights later on:
http://julianaheng.com/wp-content/image ... 6090-1.jpg

[architect]

Dave,

If you take a look at the UK set names, you will see the term Lion used. In fact, the term "Crusader" was first used for the Lion Knights in the 1992 North American Catalog eight years after the faction was introduced. Before it was ever used for the Lion Knights, the term appeared in 1990 for the Forestmen: http://www.classic-castle.com/sets/archives/1877.html

The key example is 6080 Kings Castle. In the UK this set was known as Castle Lion http://www.classic-castle.com/sets/archives/6080.html

Both terms are correct for describing these knights. Either way, they are better than those Eagle Knights

Ben

[davee123]

If you take a look at the UK set names, you will see the term Lion used.

Oh, I guess I was interpreting the set name as ambiguous-- Similar to "Black Falcon's Fortress", which, as a kid, I always interpreted to mean that it was the castle belonging to an individual named the "Black Falcon", rather than the name of the faction itself. If it were "Black Falcons' Fortress" instead, that'd be pretty indicative of the faction's name. I'm just interpreting "Lion Castle" as the name of the castle, rather than "Lion Knights' Castle", or "Lions' Castle" which would explicitly describe the faction.

Before it was ever used for the Lion Knights, the term appeared in 1990 for the Forestmen: http://www.classic-castle.com/sets/archives/1877.html

Huh! I don't think I ever made that connection before, but it's certainly interesting.

What I'm hoping for is some reference in UK or AU catalogs to see if there are other names ascribed to them-- seems like Lego started referring to specific factions by name in catalog blurbs sometime around the late 80's (1989 or so it seems?) Prior to that, most of what I've looked at (boxes and catalogs) sort of glosses over any potential storyline and just talks about the merits of the Lego system, or building castles in general.

DaveE

[dyntar]

While "Crusaders" isn't the official name for the Lion knights, either.

Out of curiosity, what official names have been given to this faction? I see:

- "Crusaders" (US 1992 catalogs)
- "Leeuwenhart Ridders" ("Lionheart Knights", Netherlands 1992 catalog)
- "Ritter" ("Knight", German 1991 catalog)
- "De kasteel beowners" ("The Castle Dwellers", Netherlands 1991, 1990 catalogs)
- "Gens de Chateau" ("The People of the Castle/Manor", Netherlands 1990 catalog)
Any others?
DaveE

Add in Lion Crest to the list..

Starting from 1986 Australian catalogues had the blurbs or description of each faction and sets.

In Aus catalogues set 6080 was always known as Lion Crest castle. They were called Lion Crest up until the 92 sets when most of them were changed to being called Lion Knights.
There was never any crusaders in Aus they were all on the Lion Crest side. They just had simple names like catapult, soldier's cart, supply wagon etc. The Black Falcon's Fortress [6074] set was known as Eagle Crest castle.
Most Australian sets changed names in 92. Forestmen were called Robin Hood or outlaws. All the forestmen sets were called things like Robin Hood's secret hideaway , hideaway cave, river fortress etc. [dark forestmen and the crusader cart with forestmen never made it into any Australian catalogues]

It doesn't make it easy when sets keep changing names.

[architect]

Add in Lion Crest to the list..

Starting from 1986 Australian catalogues had the blurbs or description of each faction and sets.

In Aus catalogues set 6080 was always known as Lion Crest castle. They were called Lion Crest up until the 92 sets when most of them were changed to being called Lion Knights.
There was never any crusaders in Aus they were all on the Lion Crest side. They just had simple names like catapult, soldier's cart, supply wagon etc. The Black Falcon's Fortress [6074] set was known as Eagle Crest castle.
Most Australian sets changed names in 92. Forestmen were called Robin Hood or outlaws. All the forestmen sets were called things like Robin Hood's secret hideaway , hideaway cave, river fortress etc. [dark forestmen and the crusader cart with forestmen never made it into any Australian catalogues]

It doesn't make it easy when sets keep changing names.

Could you provide me with a list of Australian set names from the 1980's. I would certainly like to add them to the individual set archive pages. Are any of these catalogs scanned and found online?

Ben
CC Sets Admin

[dyntar]

I don't know if the Australian catalogues are found online or where to find them. [I've just got back into Lego a few months ago after I moved house and found all my castle sets.]

I have all my Australian catalogs from 84- 2000 just missing 85. I could scan the castle pages in just give me a few days.

[davee123]

I have all my Australian catalogs from 84- 2000 just missing 85. I could scan the castle pages in just give me a few days.

Ooo! Those would be really useful for Peeron, but I'm not sure what the policy is for partial catalogs...

DaveE

[ben_toy_tech]

Generally speaking for all LEGO lines, there was no overt violence or hostility introduced until approximately 1990.

I believe until the introduction of customized minifig heads, all lived as one big happy family with the standard smiling heads. Frankly, I wish that innocence had never changed! But, perhaps I am simply nostalgic for the very early LEGO sets that I grew up with.

However, I know that some children believed that the Black Knights were at war with the Lion Knights, speaking in 1980s set terms. Just as the Imperial Guards were perceived to be hostile to the Pirates, in LEGO Pirate terms for a moment... that is the line that started to introduce a bit more violence, which was definitely taken much farther in later lines with the release of the scowls, grimaces, frowns, bad teeth, cloaks, hoods, claws, horns and animal teeth, etc, etc. All of these are classic indicators of bad people on television.

[gormadoc1]

I just think that the purpose of the lego factions was for someone to make their own history of Lago Castle so that its not hooked up into a storyline, this advert from the 1980's might show what I mean: ttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqE78PXzkqY . but after 2004 the castle line has had a some sort of a storyline but back in the 80's and 90's you could make your own history, although in the 90's you got some idea of who fought who, for example fire breathing fortress had a wolfpack as a prisoner to the dragon masters making you think that the dragon masters fought or didnt like the wolfpack; it's the same with dungeon hunters and night lords castle etc. Although In my opinion they were just put in to liven up a set because you couldnt have the same faction fighting the same faction.