6085 Black Monarch's Castle vs 6080 King's Castle

[destroyer4147]

Hi. I dont have the pleasure of owning both sets since 6085 BMC was my first full-sized castle set and 6080 was already discontinued.

Would anyone who owns both sets be willing to post pics of the two castles together and provide a review of how they compare with each other, and which is better and why?

Thanks!

[JoshWedin]

I own them both, but haven't had them built in years. They are two of my favorite castles and have very similar features. I couldn't pick between them. I guess it all depends on whether you want a black castle or a grey one and which of the two factions you need.

Josh

[veevers24]

I'm the same in that I only own the BMC at present. I want a 6080 and tend to think that is the better castle - things like the step detail on the back wall just make this a better castle for me

and its grey

[davee123]

http://www.suave.net/~dave/images/sets/

Personally, King's Castle wins. The two castles are basically identical in terms of layout and scale. King's Castle's courtyard is a little longer (when closed), opens a little wider, while Black Monarch's Castle is a little wider (when closed), and opens a little narrower. But it's a very similar layout.

I never liked the black color scheme of BMC, since it looked too cartoony-evil-- I preferred the more realistic gray coloring. Also, there were some issues with detailing on BMC. The wall sections are slightly wrong, firstly (see photo). Here's a side-by-side showing the slight variations in the wall system:



A couple other oddities that I never liked on BMC:
- The back wall has gaping holes in the battlements
- The portcullis's vertical bars aren't evenly spaced
- There are two large holes on the front corners
- The opening for the portcullis on the top platform is too large
- The jail cell's door piece looks like it was "accidentally" an extra brick too tall

Nice points about BMC:
- The forward battlements allow for passage into the central tower on each side
- Front gateway is nice and wide
- Some cool pieces (black macaroni, inverse corner slopes in gray, inverse extreme slopes, horse bardings)

Annoyances on King's Castle:
- The gateway is pretty narrow (6-wide)
- Not many special/unique pieces (white saddle and odd-sized baseplates are about it?)

Nice points about King's Castle:
- The lowered forward and rear battlements make for "rooms" underneath
- The jail cell has an actual "lock" (a bar across the door)
- There are stairs!

Anyway, for me, King's Castle is just a better castle. BMC has a few nice points, but since the two are so similar in their basic design, it comes down to a lot of small aesthetic differences, where King's Castle wins most of the time in my book.

DaveE

[destroyer4147]

Thanks for the reviews and the opinions, and especially thanks to Dave for the pics. I had always been under the impression that King's Castle uses the same baseplates as the BMC and so I had been inclined to think that the BMC was the bigger castle because there is less "grass" in the front section of the gate.

Also, I thought that BMC was bigger because it had more pieces, but after seeing the pics...the two castles are extremely comparable. It would be more difficult to siege the King's Castle with my Black Knights than I had originally imagined hahaha.

I've gotten a hold of some instruction scans for the King's Castle and i'm going to attempt to construct it with my remaining bricks!

[Jojo]

Hello!


Very good breakdown (Is that the right word?) of the pros and cons of the two sets, Dave. There's really nothing valuable that I could possibly add, except, maybe, for this picture:


(pic = link)


Bye
Jojo

[Ye Olde Republic]

I personally prefer the size of the gat on 6080. Being a bit smaller, it doesn't jack up the scale of the castle quite as much; it helps the gatehouse look even larger and more impressive.

[BobaFett2]

I don't have either, but the Royal Knights Castle is really nice too. I think the Monarch's Castle looks better though.

[Papy.G]

I am looking to get both, but Davee's picture pointed out something I never noticed before: 6059 is an extension pack for none black castle, I thought it was compatible with the 6085, if not designed for.

I think the portcullis's design is better in the BMC.
The BMC building is more advanced too, for it uses parts that didn't exist back when the KC was produced, and the door is wider, but it has too many gaps in the walls, and th lack of stairs.
Not sure that in grey, the BMC would win hands down over the KC.
Also, the BMC comes with two brown horses.

[DerBum]

I have both from my childhood. I prefer the Kings Castle for a number of reasons, many of which have already been stated. I do take issue with some of the criticisms Black Monarchs Castle, mainly the black walls. I have seen a number of castles where the walls have become a dark gray/black color either due to the rock used or the weather conditions present in the area.
This is obviously still gray and tan, but it is darker than many other castles and darker than the old Lego gray. I think black sorta gives off the same vibe. It would be my guess that TLC used black to make the BMC more sinister, but a darker black or almost black stone is within the realm of posibility. Maybe it is made out of granite!

[Papy.G]

This picture makes me think about Angers' castle, wich tuffaud (originally tan/white) turned into black because of today's pollution, just as Notre Dame de Paris' stones before beeing whitened.
But this is right that sometimes, stones used were quite dark, Clermont-Ferrand's Cathedral is build from Volvic volcanoes stones for example. However, I doubt that humans happen to mine volcanoes this early (mid-age).
To finish, granite is rarely black, it can be quite dark, oftenly (mainly with the help of oil...), but it is (at least in brittany), usually light, sometimes blueish, sometimes pinkish.

For all these reasons, I don't think such dark stoned castle is historically accurate in my area. But, who cares? Not me, since it is Lego, it doesn't have to be always accurate anyway.

[DerBum]

Some of the granite in the north eastern U.S. was apparently originally from a piece of continental Europe which collided with North America some time in the past. In states like New Hampshire the granite can be quite dark and almost black at times:

This is wet/weathered and a lot of it is gray, but from time to time one does find almost black granite, esp. when it has been polished in streams. You are correct though, this is Lego, it is meant to be a toy and I never even questioned the color of the walls wehn I was a child. My Lions (Crusaders) could surround and lay siege to the BMC just as well as any gray castle.

[davee123]

I do take issue with some of the criticisms Black Monarchs Castle, mainly the black walls. I have seen a number of castles where the walls have become a dark gray/black color either due to the rock used or the weather conditions present in the area.

While true, I still like it less, because of the cartoony-evil vibe I get from it. As I recall, you could make the same case for the yellow castle-- that is, there are some similarly-yellowy-colored real-life castles-- but it still triggers a reaction for me that says "unrealistic".

It's funny, actually, because I was more willing to accept BlackTron (same timeframe, and even MORE cartoony evil), but I just didn't have the same appetite for the Black Knight's black color-scheme for castles. It's not horrible or anything, I just didn't like it as much. And, granted, I liked the later black castles better (6086, 6090) probably because they had gray battlements, which balanced things out a bit more.

DaveE

[evilnailman]

King's Castle for me every time. If for no other reason than it fits in better with the other modular castle sets of its time.

If I were to use one as a standalone keep it would be a closer choice, but I would still go for 6080 due to its colour. The light grey with the mottling just looks right. I still have the wall pieces from 6085 in my spares box and struggle to find use for many of them in my castle scenes, whereas I have integrated two sets of 6080 into my fortified village.

Matt