A few notes on KK2

[Emperor James]

I have been thinking about KK2 over the thanksgiving break, and I have come up with a few interesting thoughts. Although they have been partially mentioned before in various threads, I would like to make a note of them.

First of all, it seems a bit odd that although KK2 is meant to be for little kids, it is a far cry from what is generally considered to be the child's steryotype of a medeival knight, that is, a heroic figure clad in silver armor slaying dragons and rescuing maidens etc. However, in KK2, we see a gang of idiotically colored maniacs with swords that look suspicously like partially peeled bananas trying to beat up the primary candidate who is running for the kingship. Note, however, that KK1 represented our stereotypical medeival knight. I'm not exactly praising KK1, it was crap too, but the figures imho were the best LEGO castle has ever seen. Anyway, it is apparent that the stereotype of the medeival knight doesn't sell very well, as TLC did indeed release KK2, so much different from KK1. It is apparent that KK2 is selling well, meaning that KK2 is "cooler" to little kids than KK1.

Now we can put all of this information together: Hippies/Mafia thugs/Crack babies are cooler to little kids than knights in shining armor saving maidens from dragons. I am a bit frightened of what will happen to the world when these kids are in control of it, but that aside, why? What makes hippies/mafia thugs/crack babies are cooler to little kids than knights in shining armor saving maidens from dragons? Video games? Television? I have never seen much like either KK1 or KK2 on television or video games, though I am not leaving them out of the blame. I think that the real problem is the lack of reading in these young children that keeps them from gaining that stereotype of knights. After all, the main source of the stereotype is King Arthur, and although I am sure most children are aware of King Arthur, I do not beleive that they are getting the full idea without reading any of the many books about him. Of course, I will always blame this lack of reading on video games and television. As for how children get the KK2 idea, I have no idea, maybe from KK2 itself. Perhaps the colors are appealing to them due to all of the television they watch.

Well, I have said all that has come to mind. My final concluson is, do not watch television or you will like KK2.

[Draygen]

I say we all let these arguements rest. Yes... lots of people don't like KK2 and yes lots of people like KK2. We've heard all the arguements about it. "Power Rangers"... etc etc.

Can we please let it go, KK2 isn't going away so lets make the best of it and let things be as they are. There's nothing we can really do about it so complaining and pointing out the obvious flaws in it are really not doing anything or bringing anything new to anyone's attention.

KK2 might yet redeem itself and if not at least Castle came back for a while, thats all I can ask since its been absent for a good while. Don't take any offense to this, just a bit weary of the endless amounts of "KK2 sucks" that I've seen. We've been there, done that and now we should move on.

[Lord_Of_The_LEGO]

Can we please let it go?

Yes, PLEASE!

Honestly, I don't know why you wasted your time typing up this thread (in fact I do know why I wasted my time reading it), your post is pointless.

[LEGOFREAK]

....However, in KK2, we see a gang of idiotically colored maniacs with swords that look suspicously like partially peeled bananas trying to beat up the primary candidate who is running for the kingship. .....

uh what the brick?

Now we can put all of this information together: Hippies/Mafia thugs/Crack babies are cooler to little kids than knights in shining armor saving maidens from dragons...

have you been getting into the bananadine dude?

I really don't see the connections you are drawing here.
Look - KK2 isn't perfect. but it does have its points. you dont like the color, got it. I have to say I love the red knight after I changed visors on him. and vladeks attack siege tower thing is kinda cool once you lose the side cardboard things.

anyway... its here, and we have it, and we hope it gets better.. and man.. lay off that stuff.

[ottoatm]

I just want to say though... that post really made me laugh... sorry... I understand where you guys are coming from with asking to end it all, and I actually do like SOME parts of KK2, but... the post was funny... heh heh heh.

[Glencaer]

Now we can put all of this information together: Hippies/Mafia thugs/Crack babies are cooler to little kids than knights in shining armor saving maidens from dragons.

Okay. I understand your point until you get to this point. I understand you may not like KK2 (I'm not excited about it either) but try to keep your comments constructive and non offensive.

Your post is on the edge of trolling, is certainly offensive and has no real point. It does not add anything to the discussion of KK2, criticism or otherwise.

Consider this a warning.

TLG reads our forums, and this constant level of irrational bashing of a theme is affecting our prestige. I understand you guys don't like the theme, but try to be intelligent and civilized in your critiques.

Thanks

-Lenny

[ottoatm]

Point taken...and I can agree ~

Overall, it IS nice to have SOME castle again...

[forester3291]

I personnaly like KK2. Guess what! I read tons and tons of books. I probably went through King Arthur five times. I have read LOTR each book ten to fifteen times. I don't watch much TV. I just watch Football, some movies, and some sports shows. That's basically all of it. So when you say TV is the problem and THAT is waht makes KK2 bad or that's why TLC made kk2 I think you're wrong.

others have sated this but I want to emphasize. First, We have KK2 that's what TLC came out with they're not gonna change it so you're just going to have to live with that prospect. Second, KK2 besides the Babie Blue Knight(wich can be fixed with some color changing for the torso and helmet, etc. etc.) is very good in my standards. The red, green, and Knights can all look great with a change here and there, even Jayko is okay.

So as Nathan said this post is basically pointless. Everybody knows how certain peope feel about KK2. Some people like it some people don't. Me? Well I'm and optimistic guy, and due to some intelligent reports TLC sems to be turning KK21 back towards the Golden Years. Yes. KK2 may never be Roayl Knights or the Black Knights, but it's all we have and right now that's all we're going to get. So I will live with kk2 even though some things may be childish to me. It's not just what I think. But what the whole LEGO community thinks. And personnlay I like kk2. So no moer bashing or critisizing KK2. It has it's pros and cons. As do ALL other LEGO lines.

Thanks for listening.

[Emperor James]

Let me summarize my thoughts then: I find it strange that, with children as their main market, the classic King Arthur stereotype of knights does not sell as well as KK2.

[Blueandwhite]

Allthough I'm not a big fan of KK2, I don't think that television is the reason a traditional medieval theme doesn't appeal to this generation of children. As society has become increasingly multi-cultural, the eurocentric castle theme has lost its alure among young audiences. I believe lego has tried to reach out to a wider audience by creating a brand that is based less in history and more in fantasy. It would also be prudent to remember that this line is targeted at younger children. I appreciate that much of this has been said countless times before, however I feel it is a point that is lost on many AFOL's.

The biggest problem I have with KK2 (I had the same problem with the original Knight's Kingdom) is that most of the sets seem to lack the diverse selection of pieces necessary to create a variety of alternative models. This severly detracts from the play-value of these sets. Although the initial response for KK2 has been popular with children, I wonder if it has any real staying power. I sincerly hope that the sets they release this year include a greater variety of bricks, otherwise I suspect KK2 will not last into a third year.

[LEGOFREAK]

Let me summarize my thoughts then: I find it strange that, with children as their main market, the classic King Arthur stereotype of knights does not sell as well as KK2.

Ok! now I get what you mean. This is a much better distillation of your previous post.

I too find that interesting. and you know, it is also interesting that castle as a line hasn't had a "knight in shining armor". The only chromed pieces were the half plate in the conquistador, the great sword and the crown and shields. I know you could make a single chromed out knight if you bought all those bulls sets, but somehow thats not the same. Maybe we'll see something like that in the future?

F

[Sir Kohran]

Allthough I'm not a big fan of KK2, I don't think that television is the reason a traditional medieval theme doesn't appeal to this generation of children. As society has become increasingly multi-cultural, the eurocentric castle theme has lost its alure among young audiences. I believe lego has tried to reach out to a wider audience by creating a brand that is based less in history and more in fantasy. It would also be prudent to remember that this line is targeted at younger children. I appreciate that much of this has been said countless times before, however I feel it is a point that is lost on many AFOL's.

This is the whole difference between KK2 and the other Castle themes. Whereas the older Castle themes (Black Falcons, Royal Knights etc.) were based on realistic, historical castles, KK2 is based on more fantasy styled themes, probably due to an attempt by Lego to emulate the Lord of the Rings, which has proved hugely successful.

I think many of you AFOL's need to rethink the whole 'Jelly Bean Knights' and 'peeled banana swords' and take a good look at KK2 as a whole. Yes, I know the jousting carts are pretty bad, but I personally don't see what is really so bad about KK2 that you must all insult it so much.

[ottoatm]

Personally, I don't know what I'm gonna do with those swords because they so different than all previous swords... the chrome painted swords are difficult enough because they are so big, but these are big and bright and... i dunno... I think the handle area alone is bigger than a minifig head, no?

Time will tell how well we all manage to integrate these new figs into what has always been a somewhat realstic, very classic setting. I'm thinking of creating another continent/storyline for them... eventually leading to something like a meeting of two worlds or what-not. This would account for such drastic differences in design, color, etc etc...

[Mr. Shiny & New]

I'm going to chime in with my opinion, as an AFOL who only got back into castle a year ago, after about 13 years:

The new castle stuff is not bad. The smaller kits seem to have a reasonable part selection. I'm not a fan of the large castles that don't really have walls and rooms, but are rather a big facade, but as a playset it is not too bad. Lots of toys were like that when I was growing up. Even the lego castles, classics like the Knight's Castle had to be opened up so that you could play with the inside. So a big facade castle is tolerable. Not my preference, but still not the worst thing ever.

So the new castle stuff isn't "realistic". But it's just a theme, like any other. Not all the castle stuff mixes well together anyway. So there aren't many figs in the KK2 theme. But the theme is new, there will probably be more figs as the popularity of the theme is proven in stores. Will we see fig-packs like in the glory days? Maybe, maybe not. Does that mean the theme is garbage? No!

The biggest reason I haven't bought any KK2 is the new greys. But that flaw isn't unique to that theme; it's also the reason I haven't bought any new Harry Potter or Spiderman or any other theme. I can't justify spending the money on bricks I can't use because they clash with my collection. However, this flaw doesn't affect everyone and certainly isn't a big deal to kids with only a few sets. If I were 8 years old right now, with a new lego kit and an old one, I'd probably look with scorn on the older kit and it's "shabby" colours. Though I'd probably find the old-style knights better than the sci-fi-ish KK2 knights.

Anyway, KK2 isn't too bad. In time, it will grow and you'll be able to build lots of things. More stuff will be available in the new grey and you'll be able to have a reasonably sized collection in the new colours. And as for today: the Harry Potter stuff makes for pretty good castles too. Lots of accessories that can be used to outfit any medieval/fantasy setting. So things aren't that bad in legoland (can I still call it that? )

Mr. Shiny and New

[The Tennis Ball Kid]

I personbally(sic) don't see what is really so bad about KK2 that you must all insult it so much.

Well, I'm not really into comparing the JellyBean Knights to crack-babies or whatever, but for me the problem is simple:
Last year for $90 you could get this, this, and this.(1,292 pieces, 12 figs)
This year, for the same price, we get this.(632 pieces, 8 figs, new colors)

If anyone at TLC is reading this: A re-release of the castle Legend pack in Blay would be more than enough to make me buy my first set with blay.(of course if you wanted to do it in gray I wouldn't say no....)

Let me summarize my thoughts then: I find it strange that, with children as their main market, the classic King Arthur stereotype of knights does not sell as well as KK2.

And you know that KK2 is selling better than KK1, how? Do you have sales numbers or something? (not trying to be a smart aleck, just wonderin')



Oh, and if you want hippies.....