Shock and Horror

Discussion of official LEGO Castle Theme sets and products
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Draygen
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Post by Draygen »

This subject... is one that well has no end. Everyone is entitled to their opinions.

Neither side will budge, there are those who hate it uncontrollably, those who give it a shot and make the best, and those who like it.

No side will shift... so discussion is fairly... useless at this point in time.
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Devari
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Post by Devari »

I'm going to use this scale. Keep in mind these are my personal opinions, obviously with my personal biases.

Aesthetic Value- 1 of 5
Are the colors eye pleasing and vivid=no
Do the sets look interesting=no
Is there a high level of detail in the building=no
Do the minifigs look fun to play with=no
When combined, are the sets compatible=I have no idea - default to yes

Quality Level- 2 of 5
Are the pieces of high quality=no
Do the sets have durability=no
Are sets well designed=no
Are the pieces highly detailed=yes
Are the colors consist one to another=yes

Play Value- 1.5 of 5
Are the sets fun to play with=no (Not insofar as I can see)
Do they have longevity in the original designs=no
Are pieces available for alternate builds=yes (although the actual range of possibilities is limited)
Is there room for imagination within the series=possibly
Is the original story fun=no (not for my liking)

Value- 0.5 of 5
Are the sets worth the $=no
Do you have unique or rare pieces/colors=no (Not rare at all, and certainally not attractive to many people)
Is there enough minifigs or accessories=somewhat (I'll admit I may be unfair here, but, c'mon, there is certainly not enough minifigs (or, more acurately, the right type of) for my liking.)
Are the parts in the sets worth having=no (Not worth the price... I managed to build and decently equip my Dwarvish army at a total of $1 US per person. They used grey beards, black stubbies, Luke or Anakin torso/head combos (they look quite good with a beard), black cone helms, and grey axes. By contrast, most KK2 parts and minifigs aren't worth having in my book.)
Will the sets have a decent secondary market value=no (I don't see how they are going to have a decent resell value. I mean, they're still available in quantity, plus the big sales haven't even hit yet)

My Views- 1 of 5
Are these the best castle sets ever released=no
Can the figs be used for anything good=sometimes (Egh... I'm going to disagree on that point. Perhaps certain parts can be pillaged to be used elsewhere, but overall I find it pretty useless. Examples of usable parts (in natural state) are the Euro armors (but only in isolated cases).)
Are new weapons, helmets, horse armor, and colors worth having=not really
Should childrens toys not be realistic and depict real life war or feudalism=no (Now I'm not saying that there should be gory battle scenes (that's for US to make ;) ), but the Yellow Castle did depict feudalism, after all.)
Is this a good start for LEGO to get back into castle=maybe (it is a start, but not in the direction I'd like to see. I'm going to give KK2 year 2 a chance, but if that is awful as well, I'll be dissapointed in LEGO's direction.

Overall- 6 of 25 or a score of 24 out of 100.

24% is a definate F, but I will admit:

a. I will give year 2 a good chance. KK2 is better than absolutely no castle, despite what some people may think.
b. I may be exceedingly unfair upon it because of my disappointment in what it was. I got into castle even after KK1, so I have had no access to quality castle sets at all.

From a 9-10 year old kid's POV, I give it 13.5/16, thus the reason why it sells well. If KK2 is a step into better castle lines or a good year 2, I'm all for it, but I still don't like what we have gotten this year.
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Sir Kohran
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Post by Sir Kohran »

Formendacil wrote:
Emperor James wrote:So, you like the colored armor? Well, I have never heard anyone defend KK2 with that approach. Do you like your figs looking like that? Seriously? I mean, its rather ridiculous lookingin my opinion. And you know, I remember the old figs being much cooler and more detailedin my opinion, and being surprisingly accurate. I am mostly talking about the Black knights, but only because I have a 6009 sitting on top of my cp. And I suppose liking the shields is a matter of taste, I find them ugly and unshapely.

Well, you know my opinion on the storyline, and this is a great example of my reasoning behind it: we have only a few different figs. Wow, only seven knights in the whole kingdom! And the storyline has nothing to do with the sets, unless you count its corruption of them. And, the plenty of new pieces are mostly bad in my opinion(hemets, swords, humongous wall pieces.)

You pretty much can't make a good castle moc from the KK2 sets.in my opinion If there had only been KK2 for the last 30 years, there would be no Robert Carney's Lego castle page, or any other good moc's. in my opinionAs for those two heads, I prefer standard smileys.
Please note: All the in my opinion's contained in the abridged quote above are the inserts of the current poster.

As you noted a couple times, Emperor James, and as I have taken the blatant liberty of inserting, your argument is based on OPINION.

Indeed, the whole argument, for EITHER side, is completely a matter of opinion. Opinion can never be tried in court, or ruled on affirmatively. Unless you are able to change a person's opinion, it remains the same; and in this case, completely at loggerheads with your own.

Personally speaking, my opinion is that KK2 is the weakest "Castle" line LEGO has made, and that they really dropped the ball in doing so, although there are certain redeeming features. This is, however, just my opinion. It doesn't matter how many times I state it, I am unlikely to change anyone else's mind by saying so.

Neither *hint, hint* are you SKM likely to change anyone else's mind by the continual restatement of your opinions. And quite frankly, I don't think that any amount of additional discussion on the topic is likely to change the mind of either of you at this time.

All that you are succeeding in doing is creating a certain amount of enmity, and making the whole community more uncomfortable.

You both bring up good points, but is still ENTIRELY a matter of personal opinion as to whether KK2 is a good line or not. The opinion of many kids out there is that it is a good theme, the opinion of many AFOLs is that it is not.

Please don't tell me that either of you think you will convince the other that YOUR opinion is right.

It's an opinion, there IS no right. Or wrong.
*sigh* I guess you're right, Formendacil. I realise that people's opinions are their own, and that I can't change them. I suppose I've known that every time we've fought over KK2, but have never really acknowledged that. So I'd like to apologize to the members of CCC for the trouble I've stirred up, and now I'll leave you all to your own own opinions.
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ottoatm
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Post by ottoatm »

To be honest, I've enjoyed reading up on all these postings... ppl defending KK2 have actually made me notice a few bright points here and there that I didn't note, while those unsatisfied with it did the same, or reaffirmed some thoughts I had on the topic.

So actually, despite the frustration some may be feeling these days, I'd like to say "bravo" - I think this thread was actually part of what the forum and CC is all about. Sure things get heated from time to time, but it was really interesting to listen to both sides of the argument (wait, is it over? ;-)) in an organized fashion. And... like I said, I actually learned/was impressed by a few things in KK2 I hadn't thought of; such as a somewhat cool MOC with KK2 here in CC, in which Santis falls and is impaled by a bunch spears :twisted:.

Of course, being a "typical(?)" AFOL, nothing will sway my opinion in general, but I don't believe KK2 is the scum of legoland anymore, and thats a good thing.

Kudos for the debate ppl ~
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Sir Kohran
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Post by Sir Kohran »

ottoatm wrote:To be honest, I've enjoyed reading up on all these postings... ppl defending KK2 have actually made me notice a few bright points here and there that I didn't note, while those unsatisfied with it did the same, or reaffirmed some thoughts I had on the topic.

So actually, despite the frustration some may be feeling these days, I'd like to say "bravo" - I think this thread was actually part of what the forum and CC is all about. Sure things get heated from time to time, but it was really interesting to listen to both sides of the argument (wait, is it over? ;-)) in an organized fashion. And... like I said, I actually learned/was impressed by a few things in KK2 I hadn't thought of; such as a somewhat cool MOC with KK2 here in CC, in which Santis falls and is impaled by a bunch spears :twisted:.

Of course, being a "typical(?)" AFOL, nothing will sway my opinion in general, but I don't believe KK2 is the scum of legoland anymore, and thats a good thing.

Kudos for the debate ppl ~
Well, even though this debate (if you could call it that) is over now, it's good to see that you gained something from it. I don't know if my opinion has changed anything, but I hope that this topic has shown people something.
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