Mottling advice

[SavaTheAggie]

Well, I'm sitting here up in Texarkana, 6 hours away from my collection, calming myself after sporatic fits from brick withdrawl, and further planning my next Castle MOC.

And what is it? A castle, of course. But not just any castle, no way. This next project has been planned to be *THE* biggest castle of my career as an AFOL. After this, I'm sticking to smaller castles with lots of terrain.

How big is big? Well, for reference, my biggest castle ever (which was never completed) is here:



That castle sits on four 48x48 baseplates in a square, that is to say, 2x2 baseplates.

This next castle will sit on NINE 48x48 baseplates in a square, or 3x3 baseplates. Ok, yeah, I'm bragging a bit, but I think I have every right... I'M IN A FORCED DARK AGE HERE!

Anyway, in the castle I linked to, you can see my failed attempt at mottling the castle walls with light and dark grey. To tell the truth this castle was merely an experiment to see how big I could build with a large amount of light and dark grey 2x4s. In any case I'll be spreading my dark grey out more next time, though admitedly 2x4s don't 'spread out' or 'mix' pretty.

However, in the quantity required for this next castle, I will need to use all of my light and dark grey collection, and I will still come up short. I am currently planning on buying up some light bley, since it's a lot cheaper than light grey in bulk, but that still might not be enough (I'm not made of money).

So the question comes to mottling. I need to fill in the gaps and stretch out my bricks as much as I can so I can complete my castle. Nathan's post in another thread about random mottling with light bley was so negative, I've decided to add in my light bley in a pattern in the walls, near the top, just for kicks and giggles. To tell the truth, Nathan, I really like the idea of how I'm going to do it in my head much better than random mottling.

But what should I use for random mottling? I want to add a third color (with the exception of light bley), but I want it to match well, visually, with light and dark grey.

Referring to Bruce's great article, I have a lot of options in color: Black, White, Brown, Tan, Sand Green, Sand Red, and Sand Blue.

I think I want to stay away from black, white and brown. While each mix well with one of the greys, the contrast is a bit too much for my taste with the both greys.

I have quite a bit of tan, but I don't have a lot of the sand colors (though I really wanted a Statue of Liberty, too bad I don't have $200), so I'd have to buy those.

So now my question. Which color do you think I should use? Which color do you think would best match with light and dark grey, while keeping the walls looking as neat as possible?

I'd appreciate the help. (And I apologize for being so long winded)

--Anthony

[JoshWedin]

Hey Anthony,

Since you have a lot of tan, I would go with that. I have seen a number of good castles with tan mottling (I am too lazy to go find the links right now). Look forward to seeing your enormous castle, when you get a chance to reunite with your brick!

Take care,
Josh

[CAI]

Hi SavaTheAggie,

First off, that castle looks awesome, and i don't feel like criticizing. Good luck on what you are bringing to the show. I'll share some advice by showing pics from my current work that has some random Mottling with shades of grey..sounds like the grateful dead ,...anywho.....

If you notice, dark bley is quite similar to the shades on the wall molds.

Instead of just using all brick, I combined plates to make layered bricks....i think this pic for now will show this best.

http://www.brickshelf.com/gallery/Cyin/WIP/wip14.jpg

http://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?f=104573



If you have a nice supply of plates, it will save on the bricks to.

Cheers.

Edit..i think i may have mis read...are you going to lego exhibit?

[Dragon Master]

Sand red. I feel in love with Blue and White's castle Brickmoor. I really want to order some and will once S@H reloads their stock.

Here is Brickmoor:

http://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?i=1047242

DM

[Blueandwhite]

Well, off the top of my head, I think that sand red or even sand green can be used effectively (if used sparingly). I like tan, but it tends to be quite bright. For a great comparison of the colours you mention, look here If you do use tan, you may want to incorporate a few brown bricks to counter-balance the tan.

One of the best ways to decide what colour works the best for you, is to make sample wall sections, using a variety of patterns and colours. Then photograph those sections. You should view them in black and white to get a feel of the greyscale they create.

Remember, you shouldn't put too much thought into mottling.

[lil Jon]

::High Five:: !

[Bricksidge]

Here are some random tidbits of advice:

1. Bigger is not always better ; )

2. Your project is already planned to be huge in 2 dimensions, but don't forget the third. Make sure the height varies throughout. The best example I can think of to illustrate this idea would be Cinderella's castle as seen at Walt Disney World.

3. Mottling is very hard to do right. The spectrum between light gray and dark gray seems too extreme. Using new light gray might work better, but might I suggest a different approach entirely: using a highlight color. Apply this color as window trim, crenelation, archways, or any other detail section you want. Tan or any of the sand shades should work great with this.

4. If you do use mottling, consider using a slightly different approach:

Castle walls are inherently layered. They were often made like a vertical sandwich. The "bread" was made of stacked stone bricks, while the "meat" and "lettuce" were made of a concrete-like mixture poured between the 2 stone brick layers.

Make the castle appear weathered and beaten in parts by creating a slight inset in the wall, with the exposed inner layer being a different color.



Hope this helps, and good luck!

[Mr. D]

Anthony, great to hear from you again!

I'm really looking forward to this castle. To answer your imediate question, I would use sand red or sand green, but tan could also work.

Another thing to think about, though: you could use a none gray color as an accent instead of another mottling color, as in different color corners, borders around windows, etc.

D-Man

[forester3291]

I think you should use sand red or just tan. Tan, if you use it right, can look very good in a MOC. Infact any color when used in the right situations can look good.

Just go with what you think will look the best. That, in the end, is what you will like the most.

[RuthleSs__PaLadin]

Hi Anthony, looking forward to this castle.

I would go with sand red, few sand green, tan and brown. Since the main color will be light gray,(?) you can apply the mottling to different locations and heights of the castle (bottom gate, top tower, etc.).

Remember, you shouldn't put too much thought into mottling.

Yea thats good, it shouldn't come out tooo perfect, but still look good.

DAn

[Bruce N H]

Hey Anthony,

I also think that sand red is one of the best options, as demonstrated very well in Brickmoor.

CAI: That's awesome! I'll have to add your example if I update that article.

Kevin, I did a CCC-standard sandwich wall for last year's contest.

Anthony, if your castle is going to be that big, you could save on bricks by doing some areas as studs-out plates, like Travis or Lenny.

Bruce

[davee123]

1) Don't be a square, man!

One thing that always gets me about castles is the squareness. As builders, we often think "ok, it's gonna be laid out on an X by Y rectangle". Most real castles are very unsymmetrical, just because they were modified over the years, or had to overcome bizarre twists in the landscape. This is especially important for point #2:

2) Realistic weathering

I've never actually tried this before, but it's worth a shot:

For a weathered look, make "like corners" be similarly weathered. For example, perhaps all southeast corners of the castle have more pronounced weathering/mottling because (say) the wind/sun/rain/whatever typically hits from that one direction.

Also, try and be consistant in terms of top-down weathering. Perhaps the top of the castle is more mottled than the bottom due to (again) where the sun/rain hits (moss growing in moist sunlight areas may have an added effect too)

3) Oh yeah, moss

Sand green probably makes a nice moss effect, although it's helpful to be able to have *small* pieces for increased detail-- things like 1x1 plates and the like as you get further out from the mossy sections.

4) I like sand colors

Tan is great, but typically I don't like it as much in contrast with grey for mottling. The sand colors look beautifully realistic and weather-worn. They're also probably closer to a neutral grey on an RGB scale.

Quickly looking through the RGB colors, and comparing grey to tan, sand green, new light grey, dark grey, sand blue, sand red, white, black, brown, and new brown (couldn't find RGB for new dark grey) it looks like the closest matches to light grey in order are:

- New light grey (duh)
- Sand blue (close to 3rd place)
- Sand green (tied with tan)
- Tan (tied with sand green)
- Sand red (VERY close to 3rd place)
- Dark grey
- White
- Brown
- New brown
- Black

And in terms of their "greyishness" (how close they are to a neutral grey):
- White
- New light grey (tied for 2nd)
- Dark grey (tied for 2nd)
- Sand green
- Black (I'm as suprised as you!)
- Sand red
- Sand blue
- Brown
- Tan
- New Brown

So, the stats say (depending on how you want to interpret stats) that the best choices for mottling are: new light grey (10), sand green (127), sand blue (135), sand red (141), dark grey (164), tan (178), white (240), brown (333), new brown (368), black (400)

The other option of course is "very light grey" as in the mosaic sets, but that's even HARDER to get in the quantities you're looking for.

5) More colors

Don't limit yourself to only one or two mottle colors. Sand green for mossy patches, sand blue to contrast between light grey and dark grey, etc. I still can't get over how good a mixed-mottle can come out:
http://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?f=110268

And I apologize for being so long winded

Right back atcha

DaveE

[The Blue Knight]

For true mottling the bley and OLG combo is the best in my mind. I lack sufficient sand colors to use them even as a highlite color, but they look great when used. The ODG could be used as a highlight as well.

Another technique used when buildig big is a facade. Many of Dr. Carney's castles have a blue, yellow or green structure supporting a more suitable color on the outside. Perhaps you could use tan and or brown for wooden buildings in the interior up against the wall in Edwardian fashion?

BTW what has you so far from home? How long has it been? I may have missed an anouncement post, but indulge me nonetheless, if you will.

[SavaTheAggie]

Thanks, everyone, for all the advice. It's really helped me make some critical decisions.

Hi SavaTheAggie,

First off, that castle looks awesome, and i don't feel like criticizing. Good luck on what you are bringing to the show. I'll share some advice by showing pics from my current work that has some random Mottling with shades of grey..sounds like the grateful dead ,...anywho.....

If you notice, dark bley is quite similar to the shades on the wall molds.

Instead of just using all brick, I combined plates to make layered bricks....i think this pic for now will show this best.

http://www.brickshelf.com/gallery/Cyin/WIP/wip14.jpg

http://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?f=104573



If you have a nice supply of plates, it will save on the bricks to.

Cheers.

Edit..i think i may have mis read...are you going to lego exhibit?

I was never happy with that castle, I consider it a failure, but I did learn quite a bit from it.

I hadn't thought about using plates, but with the size of my castle I don't know if that'd be effective. I'll certainly see what I can do. I'm not building my castle for an exhibit, but I'm sure I'll take it to at least one.

Well, off the top of my head, I think that sand red or even sand green can be used effectively (if used sparingly). I like tan, but it tends to be quite bright. For a great comparison of the colours you mention, look here If you do use tan, you may want to incorporate a few brown bricks to counter-balance the tan.

One of the best ways to decide what colour works the best for you, is to make sample wall sections, using a variety of patterns and colours. Then photograph those sections. You should view them in black and white to get a feel of the greyscale they create.

Remember, you shouldn't put too much thought into mottling.

Yikes! That's quite a contrast. I'll really have to be careful with tan if I use it, and I'll certainly consider putting in some brown as you suggested. I will also work with test walls as well, that's a really good idea I had never thought about.

Here are some random tidbits of advice:

1. Bigger is not always better ; )

It's too late for that my friend, this has become a full blown obcession

2. Your project is already planned to be huge in 2 dimensions, but don't forget the third. Make sure the height varies throughout. The best example I can think of to illustrate this idea would be Cinderella's castle as seen at Walt Disney World.

My castle is based on a real castle, so the third dimension is in my mind. The biggest towers will be effectively 25 bricks tall or so, where as some of the smaller sections will be 10 to 12 bricks.

3. Mottling is very hard to do right. The spectrum between light gray and dark gray seems too extreme. Using new light gray might work better, but might I suggest a different approach entirely: using a highlight color. Apply this color as window trim, crenelation, archways, or any other detail section you want. Tan or any of the sand shades should work great with this.

4. If you do use mottling, consider using a slightly different approach:

Castle walls are inherently layered. They were often made like a vertical sandwich. The "bread" was made of stacked stone bricks, while the "meat" and "lettuce" were made of a concrete-like mixture poured between the 2 stone brick layers.

Make the castle appear weathered and beaten in parts by creating a slight inset in the wall, with the exposed inner layer being a different color.

Hope this helps, and good luck!

A lot of good advice in there, and it does help, I appreciate it. I really like the vertical sandwich idea, though I'm not sure how I'll pull it off yet (or if I can).

1) Don't be a square, man!

Wow, lots of good ideas in there! Too much to quote.

My castle, since its going to be based off a real castle, is going to be squarish, but I don't think it'll be a bad thing.

I really like the idea of the realistic weathering, I'll certainly have to explore that.

I did the moss idea in Halcyon 2.0, I may rehash it for this next castle was well, especially since my castle will have a moat.

For true mottling the bley and OLG combo is the best in my mind. I lack sufficient sand colors to use them even as a highlite color, but they look great when used. The ODG could be used as a highlight as well.

Another technique used when buildig big is a facade. Many of Dr. Carney's castles have a blue, yellow or green structure supporting a more suitable color on the outside. Perhaps you could use tan and or brown for wooden buildings in the interior up against the wall in Edwardian fashion?

BTW what has you so far from home? How long has it been? I may have missed an anouncement post, but indulge me nonetheless, if you will.

I've considered using the two new bley colors as my mottling, along with my light and dark grey. Who knows, maybe if I did it right I could turn a few people to the bley side?

It's funny you mention Dr. Carney, he's already done the castle I'm planning (though my version won't be an exact copy). His version is a lot bigger, but I've always disliked his facade only castles, which this was one. I'm going to shy away from facades, so I'm afraid for the most part using the non-standard colors like blue and red will be few and far between. However, I will be using some of those in a similar fashion to how I built Halcyon 2.0.

As for why I'm so far away from my collection, my wife and I moved into my late grandfather's home 6 hours away from my parent's home to try and find work (and to get out of my parent's home). It's been about two months, and though my wife has found a job, she hates it for the most part, and I've yet to find anything. The future is incredibly uncertain with us, and I have no clue to when I'll be reunited with my bricks.

--Anthony

[Dragon Master]

My top guess for Sava's new Castle:

Bodium Castle!