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Why does everybody seem to think the Orcs/Trolls are evil?

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Postby doodstormer » Fri Apr 04, 2008 6:47 pm

Well, you asked for it...

AHEM.

In Terra, Orcs are divided into three "types", "classes" if you will. Orcs are similar to humans, but with a slightly bulkier build, sharper teeth, and green shades of skin. Ogres (the ones lego calls "trolls") are bigger, have a characteristic underbite, and larger teeth. Ogres are known to be unstable, sometimes going berserk on their own brethren. Trolls (Lego calls them "Large Trolls") are utterly massive, and have large underbite as well as a hunched back. Unlike ogres, trolls usually have functional minds, nowhere near the intelligence of Orcs, mind you, but they can usually decide things on their own.
Orcs aren't evil, but can be violent in certain situations, such as conquest, revenge, and defending their villages.

There you go. That's a run-down of Terra's early Orcs.
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Postby Quickblade22 » Fri Apr 04, 2008 9:13 pm

Orcs can be whatever you want them to be since they are fictional. The reason that "Everybody" seems to think them as evil is simple.....because that is what they were created to be. In the earliest refrences to orcs, they are shown as evil, the bad guys, the common enemy. The modren games like WoW has made them a more ambiguous race to attract an interest in playing their side of the battle. Being politically correct is overrated to say the least. Since they are fictional, the argument of historical perspective has no merits. Here is a link from Wikipedia to get an idea of what I'm talking about: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orcs . In essecence, you can have them be friendly next door neighbors if you want, but I will be using them as evil since that was the way I've viewed them from the beginning.
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Postby Blue Head » Fri Apr 04, 2008 10:40 pm

In many books orcs and goblins have been seen as evil beings whos soul purpose is to kill kill kill. This can, however, be seen in many ways (as we have found out). Many (here) see the orcs in a way wouldn't see them... maybe they are the good guys after all, and have not waged war, but have had war waged on them.

J.R.R. Tolken writes about goblins and orcs in his trilogy, The Lord of the Rings (duh), in which one book, The Hobbit, he describes goblins as very smart beings who use their brains to make torturous devises. They also seem to have an alliance with the larger Trolls, who are merely the dumb brutes with big muscles.

Like Quickblade22 said...
"You can have them be friendly next door neighbors if you want, but I will be using them as evil since that was the way I've viewed them from the beginning."

That is how they were built to be, evil. But then even the Crownies seem evil in this conflict, giving Lego a new twist. Both sides are seeming evil all of a sudden. This is war, there is no good side, because each side has to kill for it to be a war.
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Postby Tower of Iron Will » Fri Apr 04, 2008 10:59 pm

For my .02,
Ever since reading about them in LOTR (& The Hobbit) and D&D, the common perception is that they are a rather warlike race intent on world domination and are in direct conflict with the Human and Demi-human races of the world. The being said it doesn't mean that in my worlds, one cannot find at least one law abiding Orc. But to have a race of them be good would be pointless when there are Elves(not Dark ones) and Dwarves. I would list Humans but they can be either Good or Evil or a mix. Usually there is a balance between good and evil. But this is my world. Do what you feel like. Its Friday and I'm leaving work now so nothing matters except getting home to the LEGO...
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Postby Lego Knight » Fri Apr 04, 2008 11:09 pm

I personally have my Dwarves, Humans, Elves, and very few Orcs as one castle. The Dwarves take care of Mining and Smithing with some shopkeeping, Elves play the part of Espionage/Military, Humans do everything from Village idiot to King, while my Orcs just dabble in everything.
I leave being evil to my Skeletons and Humans. Plus the odd Dragon/Traitor in the midst.
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Postby Blue Head » Fri Apr 04, 2008 11:47 pm

Tower, that gave me an idea. What if you had a small race of Good Orcs, and another, larger sized, group of Evil Orcs? Eh? That's my new world.

But another thing, Tolken's works did symbolize different things, the orcs being the evil. There couldn't have been any good in the evil, because it was pure. Just something I think about a lot (symbolism in fantasy and such).
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Postby ottoatm » Sat Apr 05, 2008 4:07 am

While it's always true that in LEGO anyone can be good, evil, whatever... my reasons for orcs and trolls being evil is pretty simple...

It's more interesting to me that way. :wink:

I don't know, I've read a lot of books and seen a lot of movies/cartoons, and in the end I always come back the bad guys looking big, smelling ugly and having big teeth and red eyes, while the good guys look more noble, and clean themselves on a regular basis. :)

Of course there are always one or two exceptions, but when I see trolls and goblins or orcs sitting around thinking of the noble things in life, it just goes too far... Poltical Correctness dominates my life, but not my LEGO. :)

I want my goblins scheming and evil, my trolls dumb and angry, and my orcs burning and pillaging all in their site.

And why not?

I have enough good-looking jerks in my normal, real life - lets make things more interesting. :twisted:
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Postby Foxglove » Sat Apr 05, 2008 10:33 pm

Heir of Black Falcon wrote:Foxglove,

You must be young or maybe I am just really old :D . The 'original' Warcraft I and Warcraft II Orcs and Trolls were pure and simple bad and evil. I have not really played Warcraft since II so I do not know how they are now but they were simply put bad guys in the early days. In II particularly they just destroyed everyone in their wake as aggressors almost destroying the Humans, Elves and Dwarves. My brother said when I just asked that orcs still are considered bad more often than not in WoW or at best neutral. To be fair WoW and Warcraft in general have not moulded my orcs/goblins/trolls much but I always thought Warcraft portrayed orcs and such as baddies.


Taken from wikipedia:

The Orcs are native to the world of Draenor. They were a shamanistic, honorable, warlike race who had tremendous respect for the earth and the elements. However, when the refugee Eredar (Draenei) came to their home world, the demons who pursued them corrupted the Orcs through their dark magics, inspiring in them a terrible bloodlust. The Orcs then slaughtered the Draenei and most of the sentient races of Dreanor. The Burning Legion then directed them to invade Azeroth through the use of portals, which is where the first game picks up.

Throughout the first and second games, the orcs are the savage slaves of their demon overlords, slaughtering whoever defies the Burning Legion. However the third game, Warcraft III: Reign of Chaos sees the orcs freed from their blood pact and returned to their natural state.


---


I've seen some well-thought out replies to my topic and it pleased me greatly to see the rationale behind so many of your arguments. As I said in my original post, perhaps the Warcraft series has influenced my judgement too much, I just can't see them as evil. A shade of gray perhaps, but not evil.

Thankyou all for responding.
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Postby TheOrk » Sat Apr 05, 2008 11:55 pm

Orcs are not necessarily evil, but more often then not they are portrayed as the savage inhuman enemy of the protagonists. Since they're so generically evil, you'll root for the protagonist like you're supposed to.

It's hard to classify what an orc is because of all the different universes around now. Originally in real life, "orc" was another name for the standard monster. Tolkien's orcs(who were evil) were elves who were tortured and twisted beyond all recognition, this was because Tolkien didn't believe an entire race could be evil. The DnD/Warhammer and formerly the Warcraft universes had them as being generic baddies, it was only recently that they became morally ambiguous in Warcraft.

Overall, orcs are a war-like race, but necessarily evil.
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Postby castlebuilder100 » Thu Apr 17, 2008 3:32 am

Orcs are thought of as evil because of Tolkien probably. I can think of them as nothing else. I'm pretty sure that the word orc comes from the Latin word orca which means a demon. Yep orcs are evil and I'll never change my mind.
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Postby Danielas » Thu Apr 17, 2008 11:14 am

castlebuilder100 wrote:Orcs are thought of as evil because of Tolkien probably. I can think of them as nothing else. I'm pretty sure that the word orc comes from the Latin word orca which means a demon. Yep orcs are evil and I'll never change my mind.

I dident know about the demon but i agree with that!
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Postby Dr.Cogg » Tue May 13, 2008 9:27 pm

According to the lego map that the Elves are on,the Trolls live in the Wizard's Domain and are Treasure hungry,so the whole reason their attacking is for the Crownies treasure.
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Postby castlebuilder100 » Tue May 13, 2008 9:42 pm

Dr.Cogg wrote:According to the lego map that the Elves are on,the Trolls live in the Wizard's Domain and are Treasure hungry,so the whole reason their attacking is for the Crownies treasure.


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Postby Voran_the_Scholar » Tue May 13, 2008 11:07 pm

I can't wait to get my hands on some orcs and dwarves. I already have big plans for both. :twisted:
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Postby Mirage » Tue May 27, 2008 4:33 am

In the ElderScroll universe it seems like all races can be equally good or bad. You find that each race can coexist together, yet there is still racism and what not.
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