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Heroes and Villains Part Two

Discussion of Castle Themed stories

What makes a good Villain?

Totally Evil
1
5%
Bad, but human
4
19%
Spineless and cowardly
1
5%
Demonic and Hellish
0
No votes
Ruthless and Brutal
8
38%
Weak and Treacherous.
0
No votes
Greedy and Misguided.
0
No votes
All the Above.
7
33%
 
Total votes : 21

Heroes and Villains Part Two

Postby Daimyo » Thu Jul 29, 2004 4:33 pm

Villains this time. Which type is better?
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Postby kajo163 » Thu Jul 29, 2004 4:48 pm

"Greed is the destruction of all men"

thus the best villain is the greedy and misguided. Not stupid, misguided.

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Postby Formendacil » Thu Jul 29, 2004 4:50 pm

Bad but human makes the "best" villian. The most interesting anyway.

But for a supervillain, I prefer the totally evil.

Think Morgoth. :D
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Postby wlister » Thu Jul 29, 2004 7:10 pm

Ruthless and Brutal. You can't be evil without a bit of brutality. It takes a lot of ruthlessness to even become someone worthy of being considered evil. You don't stumble on becoming the bad guy, it takes planning, cunning and a willingness to do whatever it takes to be the bad guy. Once you achieve your mondo evil status, you must be ruthless and brutal in order to keep your quasi-evil underlings from taking your spot. :twisted:

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Postby Lord Resta » Thu Jul 29, 2004 7:26 pm

I don't like polls like this, as there are so many different combinations not listed. I see a good villain as bieng greedy and ruthless, powerful and scheming, but with some redeeming qualities. Much of the time, my enemies turn to allies and other villains will come.
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Postby doctorsparkles » Thu Jul 29, 2004 8:57 pm

I chose "All of the Above" because a good villain can be any combination of the listed options.
Spineless/cowardly and weak/treacherous go hand in hand, in my opinion, and these are qualities that exemplify almost everything that a decent human being should not be. Therefore, these qualities make for a good villain.
An all-powerful villain is great, especially if you have an underdog hero. There's nothing more exciting than a hero going against all the odds and defeating the undefeatable.
In my opinion though, the most memorable villains (I say 'most memorable' rather than 'best' for reasons which will be obvious as you continue to read this post) are the kind who actually think that they are doing right. They are the ones who let themselves get carried away by their passions and end up doing harm, or believe that the ends justify the means. Some examples (and again, I'm going to use comic book characters, because I know them and I love them): Magneto, Doctor Doom (at times), and Doctor Octopus in the new Spider-Man movie (not a great example, but an example nonetheless). Some real life villains fall into this category, a prime example being Adolf Hitler (I hate to bring him up in this forum, but as I said, he's a prime example). Obviously he didn't think that what he was doing was evil, but he will be remembered indefinitely as the man who murdered six million people. A villain who doesn't realize that he's a villain is a very dangerous man indeed.
Speaking of danger, I'm reminded of an option that you seem to have forgotten. What about brilliant but insane? Not only is this kind of villain unpredictable but there are no bounds to the kind of things that this type of character is able and willing to do.
Last edited by doctorsparkles on Fri Jul 30, 2004 2:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Robin Hood » Thu Jul 29, 2004 11:12 pm

I went with bad but human. It was the closest to want I wanted. I think what makes a good villan, is a genius that is on the wrong side. I have a guy made which is just that, he is one of the more important captains under my supreme bad guy. He is a brilliant general, but by unlucky chance is on the enemys side. He was born into the wrong side so he thinks its right. :wink:
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Postby Daimyo » Fri Jul 30, 2004 1:39 am

Thanks for the opinions.
In response to the Sparkly Doctor, I have to disagree. Not condemning you, just my thoughts, that an underdog hero going agaisnt all odds is hard to potray realistically, and often get extremely mangled, or you could say, "Lost in translation."
Robin Hood and Formendacil, my thougts on yours...
I would not go with these myself, because quite simply, you cna't have a genuinely hateable villain if he has sympathies and stuff. If you get what I'm saying :wink: .
Lord Resta:
Good point. I enjoy enemy = ally stories as well.
Wlister:
Right on the money on my idea as a villain. If it would be two combinations for two good villains it would be Demonic and Hellish and Ruthless and Brutal, or SPineless and Cowardly and Weak & Treacherous.
Kajo:
Yes, very good.
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Postby doctorsparkles » Fri Jul 30, 2004 2:36 am

Daimyo wrote:In response to the Sparkly Doctor, I have to disagree. Not condemning you, just my thoughts, that an underdog hero going agaisnt all odds is hard to potray realistically, and often get extremely mangled, or you could say, "Lost in translation."


Though you make a good point, I will have to stand by my previous statement. That's not to say that the concept of the underdog hero is always effective, but almost every well-known hero has gone against a villain that he knows is well beyond his abilities. That, I think, is one of the things that defines him as a hero: He's willing to try to do what is seemingly impossible, and he's willing to die trying. Even if he gets "extremely mangled," he's still a hero because he tried. Sadly, in the cynical world that we live in, people tend to forget that sometimes.
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Postby Formendacil » Fri Jul 30, 2004 5:46 pm

I went with what makes the "best" villain: the one who is most interesting from a storytelling perspective, I chose this one because you CAN identify with him.

I haven't actually written any bad guys who fill this mould. All of the others, yes, but not really this one.

And totally evil is always awesome, as I said.

Again, think Morgoth. (Sauron is nothing compared with him) :D
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Postby Duke_Dave » Fri Jul 30, 2004 6:11 pm

I think a villain is: He knows what he wants and will stop at nothing and get anybody he needs to out of the way to achive his end. If it means being nice now,He will do it. If it means turning you off,so be it :twisted: Nobody that opposses him is safe. Even a hint of opposetion is regarded as treatery.

Also another prefect villian is Robert L. Stephenson's Long John Silver. I mean that guy is perrrfecttt. :twisted:


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Postby JPinoy » Fri Jul 30, 2004 6:55 pm

You forgot to add the "Evil genious" types.

~very intelligent
~likes to harm other people
~but knows how to coerce people
~knows how to manipulate others into believing his cause by using his charisma, and communication skills
~knows how to use terror and instill fear

All those combined the villain character in my Ancients theme: Mandirigma-Hari (Warrior-King) Halimaw (pron. Ha-Lee-Mao; meaning "beast"). :twisted:
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Postby RuthleSs__PaLadin » Fri Jul 30, 2004 7:10 pm

RuthlesS and Brutal of coarse :D

Look at the tragedy of Macbeth for example, it took him ruthlessness to become an evil person and start a "killing spree."

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Postby Emperor James » Fri Jul 30, 2004 9:44 pm

RuthleSs__PaLadin wrote:RuthlesS and Brutal of coarse :D

Look at the tragedy of Macbeth for example, it took him ruthlessness to become an evil person and start a "killing spree."

Dan


I think macbeth was greedy and misguided
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Postby Daimyo » Fri Jul 30, 2004 10:36 pm

RuthleSs__PaLadin wrote:RuthlesS and Brutal of coarse :D

Look at the tragedy of Macbeth for example, it took him ruthlessness to become an evil person and start a "killing spree."

Dan


I believe that Macbeth was actually misled by his wife, the Lady Macbeth, and blinded by his own greed, as James said. Just wondering, :wink: , why do you spell ruthless like "RuthlesS?"
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