Lands of Classic Castle - Discussion Thread

[SSchmidt]

I agree with Zacharyislazy, the morale of our brethren seems to be lower. And this isn't the first time it's happened. I have messaged the KC before about the Outlaws because I genuinely feel sorry for them.

As Lenfald, if I want to beat a faction, I want to do it fairly, not because they just have a lower turnout of players. The last GC that really focused on the heat with Lenfald and Loreos was so intense because nobody knew who was going to win with all the entries from the two factions. That's what makes LCC exciting to me.

In the LCC, it almost seems that the Outlaws are crippled from the start. We have Triphian at Lenfald. Loreos has Jairus. Garheim has that black bearded Jhiran guy (who just looks so incredibly menacing ) and the outlaws have a shadow? Who even leads the outlaws? Who is their leader? I know that being an outlaw is more of what one does, rather than what one is, and as such there is not like a central government, but even the pirates had the Brethren Court and the code was the Law!
And if Galainir is crowned queen, all that does is make her queen of the entire land while the Outlaws still don't have a visible leader.
This is just my thought (and realize, this thread is for discussion and suggestions )

The Outlaws need a visible, charismatic, leader to step out and unite their tribes. They need some sort of commonality. They need something that binds them together. I realize they are independent by nature, but that independency has made a faction that relatively few people want to join and a faction that has no morale and has relatively few who actively build. I feel like there are very few people wanting to join the Outlaws because they don't feel like a faction.
The Outlaws need a strong, visible, leader. They need an army. They need a story. They need SOMETHING that brings them together. They need a leader that is lovable to them and is strongly intertwined with the other three factions. They need some charisma. They don't even necessarily need to reform their nation, they just need a big boost.

Please understand, that absolutely NONE of this is meant as an insult or derogatory toward ANY FO, FL, or anyone else in the LCC, this is just some critique I would like to present for the sake of our Outlaw brethren who, as of late, seem more and more dissatisfied. I love LCC, this forum got me out of my collective stage and into my building stage. I spend hours on this place daily.

These are all situations I think all of us have observed, and I realize that in order for action to take place, SOMEONE has to be the devil's advocate and eventually bring these things to note. I love this forum because everyone is so kind and tries to keep from hurting other's feelings. Just as we offer kind, helpful critique's on each other's MOC's, I offer the same for the LCC.
Whatever happens, I will continue to support the LCC and all of our awesome FO's, who continue to do an amazing job offering the LCC, occupying their free time to see to all of our needs. Thank you LCC leaders for hearing my suggestions.

[Sir Erathor]

I agree with all that SSchmidt said, though I do think that the Outlaws don't need a leader as much as the other factions because they can do whatever they like A 'leader' who's more of a charismatic person than they are a true leader who men follow because they choose to would in my opinion be the best thing for them.
Its just a suggestion, and if the KC want to keep things the way they are then I won't complain I'm only thinking about this because the Outlaws seem to be kinda unhappy at the moment.

[SSchmidt]

I agree with all that SSchmidt said, though I do think that the Outlaws don't need a leader as much as the other factions because they can do whatever they like A 'leader' who's more of a charismatic person than they are a true leader who men follow because they choose to would in my opinion be the best thing for them.
Its just a suggestion, and if the KC want to keep things the way they are then I won't complain I'm only thinking about this because the Outlaws seem to be kinda unhappy at the moment.

I agree that there is great freedom in being an outlaw, and they don't necessarily have to have a leader, rather, some strong, central figure that keeps everyone in check out of fear. I think they have something of the sort now, but that leader (I think) should play a bigger role in the development of the LCC.

And I would like to think that the KC is developing that leader as Galainir, but if Galainir takes over the entire land of Roawia, then she is no longer an exclusive outlaw leader.

Just my thoughts!

[AK_Brickster]

Great discussion, guys. Thanks for the feedback.

I can only say that we are aware of the outlaw situation and are working on some sort of solution to the issue. Let's revisit the topic after the GC5 is announced and we'll decide how best to proceed from there, since the story is already written for the next "chapter" anyway.

[SSchmidt]

Thanks AK!

I just want to make sure I reiterate, I mean absolutely no disrespect to anyone or anything that has been established. And, if by chance, my comments and feedback have upset or offended someone, please forgive me. It was not meant that way.

I'm dying (literally?) to see the next installment and the prelude to GC5!!!

[AK_Brickster]

LOL!! Oh, you're too funny, Sschmidt.

[Ronin Dragonslayer]

I know the topic is on hold for the moment, but I'm all for allowing two characters per player - so long as the player doesn't just send a son or something to sabotage one of the other factions through attrition. I'm not saying you couldn't set up a contact in another region for mercantile purposes And I, for one, would love to be "in" with the Outlaws; it's a world away from Garheim -which I LOVE building for, by the way - and they get some really fun LC's.

Just my two cents. Again, we really can't emphasize this enough - you guys do a bang-up job running the LCC and I probably wouldn't be building without it. Can't wait for the GC5!

[AK_Brickster]

We'll discuss the idea of allowing 2 characters once Frisky returns and Mark is done with Iron Builder so that we are able to give it plenty of thought.

Unofficially, I'm initially a bit reserved on the idea, in part because I can see a scenario where existing characters are essentially abandoned in favor of something "new and exciting", but everything is open for discussion.

Just a reminder, if you are bored with your current character's situation, the power is in your hands to rectify. We've purposefully left the entire game wide open as far as traveling to other lands, be it for trade, adventure, revenge on an enemy, etc. Also, outlaws have some disadvantages on the surface, but nothing that can't be remedied with a little creative thinking. Want to be a merchant? Start a smuggling ring. Want to be a warlord? Invent an evil baron to become a mercenary for. Etc, etc. If you really need a change of pace, you are also allowed to "kill off" your current character and start over as someone new (comes at the price of a points reset, but that's not the end of the world).

I do agree that we need to figure out a way to give the Outlaws a little more sense of unity and community, so that will definitely be discussed as well in the near future.

Thanks again for the good feedback.

I'm doing some final proofing of the next chapter right now, so assuming I can get Orks and Mark to take a look at it today, I should be able to get it up this evening or tomorrow at the latest!

[Ferretclaw]

As far as outlaws unity, josdu has been working on what he calls "a congress of outlaws" (not what I would call it, being outlaws the idea is we have no government but... Its basically a council/meeting of thieves) Anyway I really like that idea and it will do a world of good to bring the outlaws together more...

[Luke the Swift~]

I know I should not be posting but in case I don't get to reply later I want to make sure everyone understands my position I do NOT! support having two characters per person it spreads yourself incredibly thin and can mix your loyalty's if you have a character in another faction.

[Andared of Lenfald]

I know I should not be posting

Nonsense! This thread is specifically made for people like you and me to post our thoughts and suggestions.


I saw some good points raised by both AK and Luke, so I thought I'd go ahead and address those while the topic is still fresh in people's minds. I didn't expect this idea to go through without at least some initial reservations (for good reasons, too!), and while my personal opinion on the topic is already known, I'll do my best to portray the pros and cons in an even mannered light.

So, to start off, AK_Brickster made a great point in saying that if people were allowed to create two characters, we would run the risk of them dumping their old characters in favor of something "exciting and new". It's a fair point, to be sure. We certainly don't want people just jumping between factions because the grass is greener on the other side.
However, I do think a point should be made that if someone is truly so bored with their character that they are willing to leave their original character and go to a different faction with no intent on returning anytime soon, is it not likely that the person would have simply left that character and slipped into inactivity either way? The only difference is that instead of leaving altogether, the person kept the itch to build going by changing things up for a bit. Sure, he might go inactive at his "original" faction for a little while. But I think there's a good chance that after a bit of time, he would return to his "old flame".

Now, with that being said, I concede that it's more than possible that someone who was bored with their character could be inspired to just take him on a new twist in his "life". But, it seems reasonable to assume that not everyone is going to want to do that, and would rather just start with some fresh and different. After all, I like being a Lenfel, I enjoy being "the hero". Nevertheless, there is a distinct attraction to being a "bad guy" or at least a rebel to me. But unless I completely change my current character and make him something that he is not (to me, at least), there's just no feasible way for me to do that inside of the LCC. On the other hand, with a two character limit, I can not only help boost another faction with activity (making it appealing to new members), but I can also satisfy my own creative desires. Which, in my opinion, is what Lego and building are all about.


Two more potential issue were raised by Luke, and they were good ones too. He made the point that by allowing people to create two characters, we run the risk of having them run themselves too thin, so that they just don't have any time to build for either faction. His second point was that it could mix people's loyalty if they were in another faction.

In response to the first point, I want to say that if this idea were implemented nobody is going to force someone to create a second character. Many people who see this might like the idea of having two characters, but realize that they just haven't got time. That's totally okay! Having two characters should be thought of as a luxury, not a requirement.
Another thing to remember is that even after creating a second character, nobody is going to force you to build as him/her. I have no doubt that our generous FO's would be more than understanding towards people who just didn't have enough time to keep up with two characters at the present. There's no punishment for going inactive for a time, so if you have to cut down, that decision will be left totally up to you!

Now, addressing the second point, I can see how there would be concern for someone having split loyalties if they had two characters. But, I actually think that the result of having two characters would be beneficial, rather than detrimental to someone's loyalties. By having two characters in different factions (even opposing factions!) I believe that would serve to diversify their thinking, for the better. For instance, in a situation such as a GC vote, it's likely that someone with two characters will be less inclined to just "root for the alma mater (ie. Faction)", and instead, base their vote off whatever build they truly think is the best.
Also, given the friendly and encouraging community that LCC is, I would be surprised and a bit disappointed if anyone had some hard feelings just because someone's creative desires led them to build for one faction and not another.
However, if worse came to worse, I suppose the King's Council could make a rule where you are only allowed to build for your original faction in a Global Challenge. That way they could ensure no ill will by people towards someone who chose to build for an opposing faction. While I personally believe that our community is mature enough to respect someone's decision no matter what, implementing a rule like that would be effective in ensuring a more "peaceful" if not slightly more restricted atmosphere.

I realize the FO's will want to talk this over amongst themselves before coming to any decision, but I figure that now is the best time for me to answer any doubts. Thanks for your time!

[Burlogh]

I'm dying (literally?) to see the next installment and the prelude to GC5!!!

Don't worry, outlaws accept even zombies among their ranks

For the topic. Maybe I'm harsh but my morale dropped to zero when someone who doesn't even play LCC was represent of outlaws in some GC.
I don't really feel the necessity of double characters, I think freebuild and guild system gives more than enough possibilty to form our personal story and characteristic. And techically most of us are playing more than one character - though they are just in the same lord's companion, family, allies, etc.

I'm moving to a new house soon (??? - I say it for 3 months now :>) and finally I will be able to build more for LCC.

[Sir Erathor]

Personally, I'm not too bothered about the 'two characters' idea. One of the reasons I love the LCC is because you can be fiercly loyal to your own faction, as was demmonstrated in the last GC. I think having two characters would change that.
I'm not saying that you shouldn't do t, I'm just saying its not for me

Also, the GC5 story is great so far! I can't wait for the next installment

[Ronin Dragonslayer]

Andared covered it perfectly. I have no intention of killing off or abandoning Cedric (Garheim is the coolest, after all ) but the ability to play with a completely different character with no ties or affiliation to my existing character sounds fun and personally, with the limited time I have to build (maybe nights and definitely weekends - I don't sleep much anymore ) I think I could easily switch off between two characters without feeling rushed or conflicted, though Luke's point is valid for some people.

[pyro guy]

I think maybe having one main character, and having a secondary character that you could use while your main is "out-of-action" (being held prisoner by a power-hungry evil queen, anyone?) is a cool idea.

Can't wait for the next GC! Gotta bust outta prison somehow.