Lands of Classic Castle - Discussion Thread

[Kayne_]

Sorry guys, I've been out of the conversation for a few days, but I just caught up! I like the direction this is heading with a separation from GoH. And the factions sound like a good idea, especially since with 5 options, everyone should have enough to at least get started. Wobnam, if you hadn't mentioned it I don't think I would have known that English is not your primary language! Anyway, I like the ideas you have thrown into there, and those types of ideas are exactly what will get everyone to buy in and have a feeling of ownership to the project! Great job Mark and others who are really spearheading this!

[Cuahchic]

Thanks for taking the time to discuss some of points guys. As I say they were more like a brain dump of my thoughts since I joined GoH. I like some of the ideas suggested here (e.g. making magic and fantasy creatures rare) and there are some that probably wouldn't be my choice (e.g. basing the factions on classic LEGO factions). I realise Classic-Castle is going to be somewhere knights and feudalism prevails (I was maybe a bit naive with that one! LoL ) but I like the idea of having at least one faction which is a bit different. Ideas could be a "classical" faction (e.g. Rome, Greece etc), a "Indian" civilisation (e.g. LEGO Western Indians, Mesoamericans, etc), an Arabic civilisation (e.g. LEGO Price of Persia, the Caliphate etc) or an Oriental civilisation (e.g. Samurai, Mongols, Chinese etc). I just hope I'm not the only one who joins this faction!

I like some of the ideas suggested by wobnam. Particularly the one of the Wiki! A Wiki would be a great way to collate all the MOCs we create and share the story with others. I like the way you're laying out a very realistic world, with faction in-fighting etc. I would say this should be separate from GoH to allow more freedom to create, and I would probably say it should be kept separate from anyone's own medieval world (although clearly people will bring ideas from their own worlds, it would be better that everyone can shape the world rather than basing it on someone else's ideas which might not be to everyone's tastes). If your first language is not English then it's certainly better than me speaking your language!

The project sounds quite exciting and although I am busy participating in GoH, depending on what the world and rules etc are here I am considering trying to participate in this too!

One thing that might be helpful is to find out the likely number of people participating, can you do a forum-wide poll or similar? The reason I think this would be helpful is it will be a very different world with 7 or 8 participants than with 50 (for example). On Flickr there is a World in Conflict 2070 group who are doing something similar, where they divide the world up into factions and they are doing a collaborative story. It's different from GoH in that there are less members so it's a bit more personal, if there are fewer members here I would suggest doing something more similar to that.

[richardanthonyc]

Some fantastic ideas put out here and I have to say I agree with the toning down of the fantasy. I like a more realistic world too and feel that armies of wizards and warlocks are best left on their own island

[Aliencat]

Another way to separate the magic, other than the already mentioned "magic creatures were hunted to near-extinction" (which is a really good idea) would be to base the whole continent on a "sort of realistic" medieval world, with a few different factions that people can play in, and then another faction comes in, invading maybe from a different continent, which are more heavy magic users. Slowly over time they adopt eachothers methods, so in result you'd have a few factions that use some magic but sparsely, and one faction that uses magic but isn't completely dependent on it anymore. This would give both the people who love fantasy and magic stuff, and people who'd prefer a less fantasy-oriented approach a chance to participate in a faction that suits their preference.

That's just an idea I just thought of, but I still like the "magic and fantasy creatures did exist but were outlawed and hunted etc." approach better

[mencot]

Yea I like that magic fantasy creatures have been hunted down and almost removed. So there could be a small/medium sized Island in one corner of the map, were all magic has gone, named Mystic Island or something like that. And the other lands where the other factions are don`t have it, of course there can always be some old fool who tries to do magic tricks but thats it.
I like that on with 5 factions what Teherean said and the colors are good, then there can be diffrent clans and orders inside the diffrent factions.
But who is going to be allies with whom or are all factions like in a war with each other. I would like to hear about the lore and backstories about this.
This is getting very intresting

[richardanthonyc]

All I know is that the men of my land will be a multicultural mixture of Celts, Royals and Ninja's

[Mark of Falworth]

Hey, guys! Wow! Some great stuff going around! :D

Thanks Kayne! Yep, 5 for sure. more (I think) if more folks join. :)

Wobnam, your English is very good, it's easily as good as mine, and I'm an American!
Well, a lot of what you're saying is very similar to what we've already worked out.
@wobnam
"The third level would include conflicts inside these factions, like some lower Lord rebelling, a fight for power when a leader dies etc."

This idea is particularly interesting. I don't really like the god-like status of the leaders of GoH. We could possibly have it so that a lord or baron could try to seize power! And if more sided with him or he wins a contest or something, the old king/leader would have flee to a different part of the map, or step down, and the new guy could rule! But also the same thing could happen to him! The idea for this is that the leaders would be more interested in gaining your favor than keeping you in line.

"One of the things I've put a lot of thought into is making it builder-friendly; it should be possible to build in this world with a fairly new or limited collection."
This, I believe, is vital. We should design this so that even people with limited collections can easily participate.

I see you've been working on this a lot longer then we have. I think we can easily combine what you have been working on with what we have been working on. :)

Cauhchic, Hey, brain dump all you want! Now is the time to share ideas!
"it would be better that everyone can shape the world rather than basing it on someone else's ideas which might not be to everyone's tastes."

Yes, everyone should have a part in this story! It dosn't mean however, that someone (like wobnam) couldn't share a story he's made on his own. I would like to read some of it (If he has time to get some of it up). I know Richardanthonyc has a story too. And Tehrean has been working on a story/backstory. Although in the final story, eveyone should have a part. :)

Aliencat, you've got some good points there. but I'm thinking if someone wants a truly magical faction such as orcs or elves they should be on the slightly smaller magical/mystical isle but I can tolerate a few (very few) magic things on the mainland, i.e. a character, (Kyle's avatar), ;) a rogue group of orcs.
If we're already making a magical island, I don't think we need a faction on the mainland.

Mencot, This definitely is exciting!! :D

richardanthonyc, Ninjas!?!?! :P

[richardanthonyc]

richardanthonyc, Ninjas!?!?!

Yeah... the Blue Tooth Fortress is also an Assasin training centre

[KyleKreations]

Sheesh! Every time I come back to the thread there is a new page of discussion! An exedous of magical creatures is perfect, but, the GoH has been somewhat succesful by still having quite a bit of magic. As an example, the entire land mass seperated from the Avalonian main land is dedicated to the Enchanted Forest. Full of elves,druids, and other fantasy elements. THat area has produced some of the best MOC's in all of GoH. Just something to think about. I also love the idea of the whole "taking over" type thing. GoH has been very succesful in playing out a story. But, one thing they have and we don't is that they seem to have a story for the whole thing layed out in order. If when we choose leaders could do something like that it could help arrange this better. Mark also made a very good point about the guild leaders. I think that to make this better, there should be more open interaction between guild memebers and the leaders. And by having conflicts,trading,traveling, and even wars we can make this a lot more fun to do. Like Mark of Falworth I have been playing around with some classic castle factions and you could say re-doing them. I gave my Falcon Knights the new Dragon Knight legs and it works quite well.Heres the link.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/67876944@N04/6832248029/
And some Lion Knights. Wich are based off the designs by Mark.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/67876944@N04/6832218339/
These are just little suggestions of what a faction could look like. I would also like to suggest that we have members create there own troops within a faction. So,for example, a member of the Falcon Knight Faction could have his own design and possibly colors as long as they relate to the faction colors he is in. This way it will make it easier for members who don't have a ton of one specific guy. Because I love writing so much this has been fun. I have at least a few pages of a possible or just parts of a history. But before I put them up I would like to know exactly who I doing this. If someone could compile a list of all the members that have joined it would be great. Thanks!-Kyle

[mencot]

Sheesh! Every time I come back to the thread there is a new page of discussion! An exedous of magical creatures is perfect, but, the GoH has been somewhat succesful by still having quite a bit of magic. As an example, the entire land mass seperated from the Avalonian main land is dedicated to the Enchanted Forest. Full of elves,druids, and other fantasy elements. THat area has produced some of the best MOC's in all of GoH. Just something to think about. I also love the idea of the whole "taking over" type thing. GoH has been very succesful in playing out a story. But, one thing they have and we don't is that they seem to have a story for the whole thing layed out in order. If when we choose leaders could do something like that it could help arrange this better. Mark also made a very good point about the guild leaders. I think that to make this better, there should be more open interaction between guild memebers and the leaders. And by having conflicts,trading,traveling, and even wars we can make this a lot more fun to do. Like Mark of Falworth I have been playing around with some classic castle factions and you could say re-doing them. I gave my Falcon Knights the new Dragon Knight legs and it works quite well.Heres the link.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/67876944@N04/6832248029/
And some Lion Knights. Wich are based off the designs by Mark.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/67876944@N04/6832218339/
These are just little suggestions of what a faction could look like. I would also like to suggest that we have members create there own troops within a faction. So,for example, a member of the Falcon Knight Faction could have his own design and possibly colors as long as they relate to the faction colors he is in. This way it will make it easier for members who don't have a ton of one specific guy. Because I love writing so much this has been fun. I have at least a few pages of a possible or just parts of a history. But before I put them up I would like to know exactly who I doing this. If someone could compile a list of all the members that have joined it would be great. Thanks!-Kyle

These look very cool, as does Marks. Have to post some images of some of my ideas when I get home tonight from work.

[wobnam]

"The third level would include conflicts inside these factions, like some lower Lord rebelling, a fight for power when a leader dies etc."

This idea is particularly interesting. I don't really like the god-like status of the leaders of GoH. We could possibly have it so that a lord or baron could try to seize power! And if more sided with him or he wins a contest or something, the old king/leader would have flee to a different part of the map, or step down, and the new guy could rule! But also the same thing could happen to him! The idea for this is that the leaders would be more interested in gaining your favor than keeping you in line.

This might have been clear(er) to me if I was into GoH, but what "powers" exactly are gained by holding a high title there?

My first thought is that being given "power" (to kill, force others to relocate etc) inside the project based on what you do in real life (building contest etc) can create elitism and a negative mood, because a) The best builders aren't necessarily the most creative people when it comes to developing story, and b) Having a personal character, group or faction killed or forced to do something because the creator didn't win a contest will feel very unfair to the person who has spent a lot of time to create it.

I see you've been working on this a lot longer then we have. I think we can easily combine what you have been working on with what we have been working on.

I would love that! As for my backstory, it's more a tool to set up the lego creations than anything else, so a different (community created) one that reaches more or less the same (or a better) basis for the actual project is totally fine by me.

While I think brainstorming in a thread like this is fine and can be constructive in the beginning, it will sooner or later be necessary to structure ideas better and separate discussion on individual subjects. We should think about what form this should take. Like I said, I picture a Wiki-ish website to hold all the content, at least as a "home base". This could also be used for development by creating "hidden" development articles for each subject (one for each faction, one for geography, one for general ideas, and so on) and then adding comments to them.

I also think it might be beneficial to establish a group of "admins/creators" consisting of people willing to really commit to this project. While I'm all for open discussion and input, I feel the people who really want to participate should make the "important" decisions. This will help make things consistent - I've seen projects like this fall apart because people were pulling in different directions, making the finished product rather silly and unbelieveable.

[AK_Brickster]

Mark/Teherean - Let's keep the discussion here instead of pinging around to stories for development, then back to here once we get started.

ALL - I'm going to start a poll here in the MOCs forum to gauge participation. Please go there and vote if you're interested.

Thanks!


EDIT: Wobnam, the "leaders" over at GoH run all of the contests and moderate things, from my limited exposure to it. I do want to keep it open so that everyone feels like they "own" part of the project, but we will need a leader for each guild to keep things running smoothly. How we decide who those people are, I'm not sure yet. I guess we could nominate people or something.

[wobnam]

Sounds good, AK_Brickster.

One possibility is to say that admins/leaders/moderators aren't allowed to hold top positions (like Guild leaders) inside the world to keep project and real world "power" separate.

[Kayne_]

I'm not too hip the WIki coding or where to get a free hosted website, but if we needed we could probably start Flickr groups for each faction. There we could have many conversations in each group as well. Then we could probably have an overall CC Faction Group as well that can host any MOC's, as well as general discussion that is not hosted here.

[Albatross_Viking]

Wow, there's come a lot to address since last I checked this thread. I've taken a look through most of it and here are my opionions:
Regarding becoming a part of GoH or our own, my vote still goes for sticking to ourselves. As said by shmails, I believe we're capable of making up our own thing.
-
Shmails' map: it looks really good, but I like Mark's idea about making it less "restricted". The way it is now, all expansion would have to happen on islands added with time. Would be a little bit weird if any and all upstart duchies suddenly found yet another unmapped island to settle down on. Also, I don't think there should be more borders between the countires, but prefer it this way.
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Fantasy objects/magic: personally, this usually isn't my big love about stuff like this. But I understand that some people may want to use various fantasy creatures, and I'm fine with that as long as it doesn't get overdone (as in the overly powerfull mages that were mentioned). On this point, I believe i agree with Cuahchic. Lord of Orks' point on this, that we could have one or more countries that regards magic e.t.c. as utmost heresy could prevent spreading fantasy elements too much. Also, one or more factions without the formerly mentioned beliefs could act as sanctuaries for anything magical, thus allowing members with a taste for this and those without each of their places. Naturally, this would have to be worked out well, as to not prevent anybody from choosing between their preferred culture/building style and amount of fantasy. Actually like AK_Brickster suggested.
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Terrain and skirmishes: general variation of the terrain is something I support, too, as it makes for more varried MOCs and more realism (of course, this, as with magic, should not be exaggerated). The skirmishes, too, sound like an interesting idea, but if it's implemented, we'll also have to agree in which degree wars and/or elimination of factions will be regarded as all right. Naturally, a realistic way to end a conflict could be pressure from other factions to keep up the balance of power.
My notes (written in bold) on Teheraen's important post on page 7

> We use five factions, centrerd around the "classic" factions
- These would be Black Falcon (blue/yellow), Crusader (red/yellow), Dragon Masters (red/blue), Forestmen/Wolfpack (Green/red) and the last
Would be a rebel/viking/brigand/whatever themed group for miscelaneous factions. (yellow/green).
- Colors mentioned can vary, I just chose some common colours that would be easily distinctable. Blue could include dark blue, Red could
include dark red, yellow could include gold etc. etc.
Good to see some suggestions. I haven't really considered this point much, but possibly we could have a poll and/or contest regarding the factions too (before the Lore and Map contest)
> We start a Lore and Map Contest in the stories forum to decide the background we will use for our land, and which geographical shape it will take.
- I have already written lore, so we need other people to judge.
- Rules will be determined when the contest is organised.

Sounds like a good idea. I think I'll be able to do some of the judging and organisation for these. If we decide on the factions before this, seperate contests could also be held to choose a more detailed background of the faction (which will naturally have to fit into the general Lore and Map).

> For each clan, we start a building challenge to determine who will lead. The leader of the clan will then elect his other ranks.
- Ranks (from high to low): Clan Leader/Guildmaster/King - Steward - Ambassador - Finance and Commerce minister - General/Field Marshall
- Lower lords (5 to 6 of those).
This system of choosing sounds very fitting. For this, we'll need judges too, of course. My idea is that the titles could be varried depending on which kind of faction you're the leader of. For example, a democratic country (provided we'll have anything but monarchies, which I actually think we should) would not be supposed to have their leader titles "King X".
- NOTE: these are just suggestions. Names for the ranks or their order could be decided per Clan.
EDIT: didn't see this, just wrote from the top and down. Seems we agree then.

> From there on, the Clans organise building challenges about once or twice a month to gain points (similar to what they do at GoH).
Another good suggestion. We'll have to decide what the point of these contests will be. Maybe winners earn titles and/or higher positions in one's clan (kind of like in GoH, too)

New World Expansion: nice input to make more non-european cultures available, Mark.
-

So all in all, it looks like we're slowly getting there. As Teherean said, we should probably move this to the stories forum and give it it's own thread(s).