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Mini Castle Standard

Discussion and planning of large-scale Castle Themed displays and events

Postby Glencaer » Fri Oct 07, 2005 3:32 am

Ya Recluce: It is baseplate + 1 brick. The rationale is that the size is 16x16, a common size for baseplates, Gary's micro moonbase concept is built without baseplates. Theres no way to have the base be a baseplate and have the whole structure be exactly one brick high.

Also, I think we should use this style for crenelations, rather than the lame 1x1 clips: http://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?i=1420973

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Postby Lord_Of_The_LEGO » Fri Oct 07, 2005 4:47 am

Glencaer wrote:Also, I think we should use this style for crenelations, rather than the lame 1x1 clips: http://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?i=1420973


Agreed. Now I just have to order some 1x1 tiles in light gray from BL... :D
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Postby Formendacil » Fri Oct 07, 2005 5:19 pm

Lord_Of_The_LEGO wrote:
Glencaer wrote:Also, I think we should use this style for crenelations, rather than the lame 1x1 clips: http://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?i=1420973


Agreed. Now I just have to order some 1x1 tiles in light gray from BL... :D


Something that this brings up, though, is that 1x1 tiles are are typically less common, in my experience anyway, than 1x1 clips. Is that true for other people?
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Postby Recluce » Fri Oct 07, 2005 6:07 pm

Yes, they are less common...but that's ok. I think its worth it, since those crennelations are SO much better looking....
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micro standard

Postby Magnus » Fri Oct 07, 2005 6:10 pm

This is a very cool idea. Modular building standards are really designed for large events, and a problem with taking your MOCs to events is sometimes that you need to fit them into your luggage. So a micro building style might make for a particularly successful project for dfuture LEGO conventions.

I'd suggest a higher wall (5 or 6 bricks plus battlements?). The main reason the ccc wall was so low was so it wouldn't take up too much brick. But if you are building in Micro I'd say that you can afford to build it a little closer to a more realistic scale.

IMO the main problem with most ccc displays is that people often take too many liberties with the wall sections, creating a wall that looks anything but realistic once everything is put together. So if we are starting a new modular standard, I'd suggest being a little less liberal with guidelines as to how the wall can look. I realise that real city walls varied in height, and even the same wall would be different in different places, get rebuilt, repaired etc. But staying with the same color and width would be a good start, maybe allowing anything between 5 and 7 bricks in height or something.

Building in micro makes landscaping far more affordable, but I think modular landscaping is a genuine challenge. Will be very interesting to see where this goes.
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Postby Formendacil » Fri Oct 07, 2005 6:11 pm

Recluce wrote:Yes, they are less common...but that's ok. I think its worth it, since those crennelations are SO much better looking....


Is a part of the whole theory behind microscale building, and microscale standards in particular, that they are easier to acquire pieces for, and thus easier to include a larger number of builders? If you make a less common piece a necessary part of the standard, then it will take away from the number of builders able to participate.
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Postby Tedward » Fri Oct 07, 2005 6:12 pm

Glencaer wrote:Of course, I think a possible micro castle standard could be quite simple, just by following the course of 3CS. Divide into two areas: wall pieces and houses. Wall pieces sit on a 16x16 baseplate, are two studss wide, and are 4 bricks tall. The wall is in the center of the baseplate, with a 1x2 technic brick at the base to allow for connections.

Houses are made in the typical micro scale (1x1 round = a person), and built on plates, which are then placed onto the baseplate below to create an organic city. People, trees, roads, etc are then placed where they make most sense.

How does that sound?

-Lenny


The picture later shows the top of the wall as three wide centered on the two-deep wall using jumper plates right?

Thing is, I think it is too tall. If (and only if) we are trying to "micro" the CC standard then perhaps two bricks+2 plates (crennelations can be 2 plates high) wouid be sufficient for the walkway height and woild allow for the cool "double-height" walls some have built but in micro-scale.

Can I also suggest that the crennelations only be done to the "outside" edge of the walkway.

BTW this sounds like lots of fun!
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Postby Recluce » Fri Oct 07, 2005 10:10 pm

Formendacil wrote:
Recluce wrote:Yes, they are less common...but that's ok. I think its worth it, since those crennelations are SO much better looking....


Is a part of the whole theory behind microscale building, and microscale standards in particular, that they are easier to acquire pieces for, and thus easier to include a larger number of builders? If you make a less common piece a necessary part of the standard, then it will take away from the number of builders able to participate.


In part you are correct, however..... I think its more affordable to buy 50 of those little tiles than 50 lbs of light grey brick for a large castle. And its not like they're THAT hard to get....
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Postby Jedipawn » Sun Oct 09, 2005 4:52 pm

I am going to be at NWBrickCon Today, Is anyone else going? I plan on chatting with some of the castle people out there and seeing where it leads me. My original Idea was an 8 x 8 brick high base, with a three brick high, two brick wide wall. crennelations, Imo, should not be higher then two plates or so. I really like these "figs" that were suggested, but the point about availability is a good one. I must admit that I go both ways on that one. One other thought that I had was this: Allow for large hills. i.e. anyone remember the old futron monorail set? it had two rail pieces that went up hill (or down). What if we incorperated that into the standard? Hills can be 3 bricks high, or denomiations of 3. In an 8 x 8 plate, you will have to climb 9 plates (or 3 bricks). easy enough. The difficulty will come in that you have to fill the space inside the wall with interesting plates. How do you allow for hills like this and still make sure that when we all get to a convention, our creations fit together.... mmmm.... I am still working on that. with 8 x 8 models, I think that if we wanted to build on a hill, we would be responsable for creating enough models to build a 48 x 48 or larger creation that could be put together by the person incharge at the convention. If anyone who has run these displays before has any thoughts on this please let me know.

Anyway. I suppose I should be done talking and head off to NWBrickcon. Thanks everyone for the interest on this!!!!!! I look forward to working with people on this.

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battlements

Postby Magnus » Mon Oct 10, 2005 1:39 am

If we are using people, the crenelations should be at least as high as the people.

IMO one great advantage of building in a non-minifig scale is that you aren't limited by the weird minifig body size. I'd be happy with a micro style that doesn't include people at all. If we do use those 1 by1 round bricks plus a 1 by 1 plate as people, the crenelations should be at least a brick and a plate high in order to prtect them. Just because LEGO makes ridiculously low crenelations, doesn't mean we should have to cut corners like that.

I suggest that rather than arguing about this now, and rushing into a standard, we insead wait til the end of the Micro castle competition to see what different people come up with.
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Postby Glencaer » Tue Oct 11, 2005 12:31 pm

http://www.rustyclank.com/gallery/NWBC05/PA080109

Bruce post about this: but it shows a similiar sort of crenelation done without the need of expensive 1x1 tiles. Still looks hot, if you ask me.

So, to keep this discussion going, let me ask a few questions:

Should the base be 16x16 baseplate + one brick?

Should the walls be 4 bricks + plates?

Should effort be devoted into developing a landscape standard?

For the last question keep in mind how landscaping works in 3CS: everyone is welcome and encouraged to landscape their area, as long as the outer edge is even at standard level. For micro, one could make a decent sized mountain on a 32x32 baseplate (4 16x16 plotss), and still be flush with adjacent plots.

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Postby plums_deify » Wed Oct 12, 2005 2:15 am

It's interesting...I was talking with Justin Major about developing a Microscale 3CS standard. Actually, the ideas we came up with are just about identical to what has been discussed here.

A 16x16 base, one brick high, with a lot of details to work out. Strangely, enough, I hadn't yet seen this thread.

Our conversation came from the fact that the largest castles got all the awards. Not many had enough brick to to a castle display like the ones at NWBC. That, and the Microscale area was predominantly castle, or what could be argued as castle, like farms and such.
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Postby justin2576 » Sat Oct 15, 2005 8:04 pm

Hi

Here is a standard I am working so far. I haven't worked all the kinks out yet, but I have learned a lot from doing several large layouts. One thing to consider; you will need a lot more crenelations than you think, so it pays to make them as cheap as possible.

I use 1x2 jumper plates with 1x1 plates. You can use a tile on top, but I prefer just a simple plate with a stud instead. It doesn't look that much different, and it is easier to get your hands on a lot of them. It is very simple and the walls join up seamlessly.

16x16 baseplates are a perfect size to build on with one brick high so you can make rivers, ponds, moats, and other lower elevation items. I use a row of brown bricks on the front edge to represent roads. If another row of houses is facing the first row the road becomes 4x wide and looks like a main road. Otherwise it looks like a back road or alley. I am also thinking about placing the wall back instead of in the center so you can have a larger building area for houses, however this may not work out, as I am still developing how to do corners. I connect the baseplates using 2x4 bricks. Technic bricks can added to the wall sections for added stability.

Some examples from my brickshelf folder you can see once they are moderated:

In this picture the wall is moved back and you have more room for larger buildings.
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This photo the wall is in the middle, abd may be an easier standard to use, but you don't have as much room for building.
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Postby Tedward » Sat Oct 15, 2005 10:51 pm

Glencaer wrote:http://www.rustyclank.com/gallery/NWBC05/PA080109

...shows a similiar sort of crenelation done without the need of expensive 1x1 tiles...


This would be the best "standard" combining acceptable aesthetics and practicality of collecting enough pieces to do a large layout. The different crenallations could still be used by individuals on gatehouses, towers castles, etc. so long as the basic wall units match.

Glencaer wrote:
Should the base be 16x16 baseplate + one brick?


Yes. This seems like a great idea to allow for some terrain building.


Glencaer wrote:Should the walls be 4 bricks + plates?


No. Looking at the pictures (such as the one referenced above) and playing with the different scales I would suggest 3 bricks + 1 plate + 4 plate crennelations makes a very effective wall. And to repeat a comment I made earlier, Making it too high would prevent the cool "double-height" walls some people like to do.

Glencaer wrote:
Should effort be devoted into developing a landscape standard?


No. If we already accept the 1 plate + 1 brick base above then we have allowed for sufficient variation to make it interesting. If you want to make a large mountain or a river then make a set of connected modules that still allow others to connect at the standard height.

Terrain is a chance for people to make really cool things but that will have to be worked out on a case by case basis. I cannot see how all the elements of terrain can be standardized effectively. Better to simply sign up to do X number of modules of terrain and go nuts leaving the edges that join with the rest of the display at standard levels.

Just my 2d worth.
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