Classic-Castle.com


The source for all your LEGO Castle needs!

Medieval/Renaissance daggers

Discussion of topics concerning life in the middle ages around the world, including architecture, history, and warfare.

Medieval/Renaissance daggers

Postby Mid Knight » Thu Jul 12, 2007 1:41 am

Mid Knight
Peasant
 
Posts: 53
Joined: Sun Dec 17, 2006 7:10 pm
Location: Glencoe, Minnesota

Postby Adam » Thu Jul 12, 2007 2:13 am

they all look kinda fantasy-ish to me.. something more like this maybe


Image

I dont know much about daggers/knives :(
"if its stupid but it works, it isn't stupid."
Adam
Laborer
 
Posts: 135
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2007 4:04 am
Location: PA

Postby Odysseus » Thu Jul 12, 2007 2:32 am

I agree, very fantasy oriented. Are you looking for a Renaissance period dagger? If so, is there a certain style you are looking for or is there a certain purpose you have in mind?

Here are a few different examples:

15th century Swiss baselard:
Image

Ballock dagger c.1500:
Image

16th century left hand/parrying dagger:
Image

Italian cinquedea:
Image

"Holbein" dagger:
Image

Rondel dagger:
Image

Article on rondel daggers: http://www.myarmoury.com/feature_spot_rondel.html

If you are looking for modern replicas, www.museumreplicas.com and www.casiberia.com would be good on the less expensive end of the market, www.deltin.net would be good on the middle of the spectrum, and www.armor.com would be good on the higher end. This is not an exhaustive list of manufacturers, but a small sample of what's out there.

Best,
Jonathan
User avatar
Odysseus
Laborer
 
Posts: 102
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2007 2:16 pm
Location: Vermont

Postby Mid Knight » Fri Jul 13, 2007 9:55 pm

I want to buy one or more medieval/renaissance daggers, perferably a basic renaissance dagger and an average knight's dagger.
Mid Knight
Peasant
 
Posts: 53
Joined: Sun Dec 17, 2006 7:10 pm
Location: Glencoe, Minnesota

Postby Odysseus » Fri Jul 13, 2007 10:19 pm

Mid Knight wrote:I want to buy one or more medieval/renaissance daggers, perferably a basic renaissance dagger and an average knight's dagger.


Some sites that sell multiple brands include www.kultofathena.com and www.reliks.com. They sell the gamut of prices ranges, and in general I have heard good things about them (although I have no personal experience with either). What you buy will end up being determined by a few things: price--how much do you want to spend, purpose--do you want something that can be functional or a decorator piece, and historical accuracy--do you want something that looks kind of historical or something that is based on a museum piece? I don't know your age, but if you are younger than 18 you may need an adult to order the dagger(s).

Jonathan

Oops!

Check out these daggers from Kult of Athena:
http://kultofathena.com/product~item~40 ... Dagger.htm
http://kultofathena.com/product~item~40 ... Dagger.htm
http://kultofathena.com/product~item~40 ... Dagger.htm
http://kultofathena.com/product~item~40 ... Dagger.htm
http://kultofathena.com/product~item~40 ... Dagger.htm
http://kultofathena.com/product~item~AA ... Dagger.htm
http://kultofathena.com/product~item~AA ... Dagger.htm
User avatar
Odysseus
Laborer
 
Posts: 102
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2007 2:16 pm
Location: Vermont

Postby The_Vanquished » Sat Jul 14, 2007 4:29 pm

I am quite fond of this one myself.

http://www.kultofathena.com/product~item~BK1117~name~Courtly+Dagger.htm

EDIT: I am quite fond of the price, too.
wrap me in a bolt of lightning,
send me on my way still smiling,
maybe that's the way i should go:
straight into the mouth of the unknown....
User avatar
The_Vanquished
Artisan
 
Posts: 286
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2006 11:10 pm

Postby Sir Dillon » Sat Jul 14, 2007 7:22 pm

The_Vanquished wrote:I am quite fond of this one myself.

http://www.kultofathena.com/product~item~BK1117~name~Courtly+Dagger.htm

EDIT: I am quite fond of the price, too.

Do you own it? I'm curious as to how good the quality could be with such low prices.
User avatar
Sir Dillon
Man-At-Arms
 
Posts: 881
Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2005 10:50 pm

Postby Mid Knight » Sat Jul 14, 2007 9:08 pm

Thanks, I am 14 but my mom or dad can order for me. I perfer sharp, but its okay if they are "functional." I want historically accurate daggers, that's why I posted this topic. I can't afford expensive ones, so just some basic, displayable historically accurate daggers. Are the following historically accurate? (Accurate to their title, ie the viking dagger is accurate to daggers used by Vikings, not by Spartans, for example, and the knight's short sword was used by knights as a sword, not by vikings as a dagger) Sorry if I'm being confusing.

http://www.reliks.com/merchant.ihtml?pid=415
http://www.reliks.com/merchant.ihtml?pid=291
http://www.reliks.com/merchant.ihtml?pid=2502
http://www.kultofathena.com/product~ite ... Dagger.htm
http://www.kultofathena.com/product~ite ... Dagger.htm
http://www.kultofathena.com/product~ite ... +Sword.htm
http://www.kultofathena.com/product~ite ... +Sword.htm
http://www.kultofathena.com/product~ite ... +Sword.htm
http://www.kultofathena.com/product~ite ... +Sword.htm
http://www.kultofathena.com/product~ite ... +Sword.htm
http://www.kultofathena.com/product~ite ... +Sword.htm
http://www.kultofathena.com/product~ite ... +Sword.htm
http://www.kultofathena.com/product~ite ... +Sword.htm


Sorry about the long list. And are any of the 4 mentioned in the topic post historically accurate?

And, basically, what I want is:
A Renaissance Dagger
A Medieval Knight Dagger
A Crusader Dagger
A Crusader Sword
A Medieval Knight Sword
MAYBE A Renaissance Sword



Edit: Also, are the following historically accurate?

http://kultofathena.com/product~item~BK ... g+Helm.htm
http://kultofathena.com/product~item~MC ... Shield.htm
http://kultofathena.com/product~item~WB ... ongbow.htm
http://kultofathena.com/product~item~10 ... +Tunic.htm
http://kultofathena.com/product~item~1- ... +Sword.htm
http://kultofathena.com/product~item~AH ... +Sword.htm

Thanks a lot!
Mid Knight
Peasant
 
Posts: 53
Joined: Sun Dec 17, 2006 7:10 pm
Location: Glencoe, Minnesota

Postby Odysseus » Sun Jul 15, 2007 1:37 am

http://www.reliks.com/merchant.ihtml?pid=415
no

http://www.reliks.com/merchant.ihtml?pid=291
no

http://www.reliks.com/merchant.ihtml?pid=2502
no

http://www.kultofathena.com/product~ite ... Dagger.htm
not really, but semi-plausible

http://www.kultofathena.com/product~ite ... Dagger.htm
no

http://www.kultofathena.com/product~ite ... +Sword.htm
no

http://www.kultofathena.com/product~ite ... +Sword.htm
no

http://www.kultofathena.com/product~ite ... +Sword.htm
looks ok, but scabbard is not

http://www.kultofathena.com/product~ite ... +Sword.htm
no

http://www.kultofathena.com/product~ite ... +Sword.htm
no

http://www.kultofathena.com/product~ite ... +Sword.htm
ok, but not the scabbard

http://www.kultofathena.com/product~ite ... +Sword.htm
no

http://www.kultofathena.com/product~ite ... +Sword.htm
no


http://kultofathena.com/product~item~BK ... g+Helm.htm
looks historical, but I don't know enough to say

http://kultofathena.com/product~item~MC ... Shield.htm
no

http://kultofathena.com/product~item~WB ... ongbow.htm
don't know

http://kultofathena.com/product~item~10 ... +Tunic.htm
don't know

http://kultofathena.com/product~item~1- ... +Sword.htm
looks like a plausible "waster"

http://kultofathena.com/product~item~AH ... +Sword.htm
same as above

Anything you get that is stainless steel will be for display only. Stainless steel is too brittle for actual use. In general, you get what you pay for in the repro weapon market. If you want vaguely historic decorator pieces, the the swords, daggers, etc. you have linked might do the trick. If you want something that more accurately depicts a historical piece and could withstand the rigors of "use", then you will need to consider other swords and daggers that will likely be more expensive. Some of the daggers I linked that are made by Windlass are not much more expensive than the stainless steel weapons you have linked, and while not perfect by any means, are much more representative of historical examples and they are not stainless steel. I think what you get also depends on what your parents allow, and that is probably the most important consideration of all.

Best,
Jonathan
User avatar
Odysseus
Laborer
 
Posts: 102
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2007 2:16 pm
Location: Vermont

Postby Damien » Sun Jul 15, 2007 3:25 am

http://www.kultofathena.com/product~item~BK1319~name~Black+Knight+Dagger.htm
not really, but semi-plausible


Put the tang through the pommel-ring and you've basically got an Irish dagger. I agree that it's only 'semi-plausible' but that's just because the threaded tang necessary to leave the pommel completely open like that would not have been used. S'too bad, because it's actually not too bad looking.


http://www.kultofathena.com/product~item~SW165~name~Knight%27s+Short+Sword.htm
no


Haha! I have this one.

I used it as a beater for quite a few years. The pommel is screwed on half-assedly. The entire assembly starts to come loose after a few whacks. But meh - I got it for like 10 bucks, and I knew what I was buying. You don't smack Albions together, you save the beaters for that.


http://www.kultofathena.com/product~item~PA1018~name~Long+Sword.htm
no


I'd have to sort of disagree here. While no stainless steel hunk of scrap is going to be a proper historically-accurate weapon, this one is at least designed around a real style of sword that would have been popular in the late Medieval period in Northern Europe. Can't say anything about the quality or exactness without seeing it up close, but the very basics of the design are solid.


http://kultofathena.com/product~item~WB001~name~English+Longbow.htm
don't know


Not accurate. I've seen this one up close. It's a whipping stick, if that. Too thin and weak to be anywhere near close to a model of an English longbow. It's the equivalent of a really tall child's toy bow.


http://kultofathena.com/product~item~100806~name~Lionheart+Tunic.htm
don't know


Perfectly plausible. Hard to really get a surcoat completely wrong.


http://kultofathena.com/product~item~AH4101W~name~Wooden+Viking+Long+Sword.htm
same as above


I'm not a fan of this one, myself. Way too long and thin to pass for the sword it's meant to represent. Looks like the person that made this one was a little confused.



If your parents are willing to let you have a weapon like these in the house, I strongly suggest waiting awhile. Save the money and wait until you can afford something from Museum Replicas, Angus Trim, or Albion. They'll run you anywhere from a little bit more to a very considerable amount more -- but they'll also last longer, and are generally made to a much higher standard than anything you'll find in second-rate stainless steel dealers that use words like 'bloodgroove.'
Forge not works of art but swords of death, for therein lies great art.
"The Gods made heavy metal and they saw that it was good." - Manowar
User avatar
Damien
Grammer Guru
 
Posts: 590
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2005 3:50 pm
Location: MA - USA

Postby Odysseus » Sun Jul 15, 2007 3:47 am

Damien,
Thanks for adding your thoughts. I know more about 17th, 18th and 19th century swords, and just a bit about Medieval and Renaissance swords and the repro market. Albion, Arms & Armor, and Atrim would be my choices if I was in the market for a high end production piece. I think Museum Replicas (Windlass) and even CASI/Hanwei are good for "entry level" swords.

Best,
Jonathan
User avatar
Odysseus
Laborer
 
Posts: 102
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2007 2:16 pm
Location: Vermont

Postby Mid Knight » Sun Jul 15, 2007 6:35 pm

I don't really care if they are as durable as the real ones, just if they have the same outer appearance. (It would be nice if they are durable but it doesn't matter as much to me) So, as far as outer appearance, the Lionheart tunic, black Viking helm and Longsword are the only accurate ones?

Are the wooden swords (2handed and Viking) realistic other than that they are wood?
Mid Knight
Peasant
 
Posts: 53
Joined: Sun Dec 17, 2006 7:10 pm
Location: Glencoe, Minnesota

Postby Adam » Sun Jul 15, 2007 7:58 pm

the wooden viking sword is too long..
"if its stupid but it works, it isn't stupid."
Adam
Laborer
 
Posts: 135
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2007 4:04 am
Location: PA

Postby Odysseus » Sun Jul 15, 2007 8:14 pm

Mid Knight wrote:I don't really care if they are as durable as the real ones, just if they have the same outer appearance. (It would be nice if they are durable but it doesn't matter as much to me) So, as far as outer appearance, the Lionheart tunic, black Viking helm and Longsword are the only accurate ones?

Are the wooden swords (2handed and Viking) realistic other than that they are wood?


Yes to the first question. Obviously they don't all belong together historically, though. The two handed wooden sword looks pretty good. I think it is intended to be a waster--a wooden practice sword. Right now European Martial Arts are enjoying a resurgence as fighting manuals from the Middle Ages are discovered and interpreted. It turns out that Europe had a rich tradition of effective martial arts. Wasters were and are a part of training in Historical European Swordsmanship.

Best,
Jonathan
User avatar
Odysseus
Laborer
 
Posts: 102
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2007 2:16 pm
Location: Vermont

Postby Damien » Sun Jul 15, 2007 9:36 pm

I think Museum Replicas (Windlass) and even CASI/Hanwei are good for "entry level" swords.


Absolutely. Besides sometimes sketchy quality and a website that barely ever works, my only complaint about MRL is their insistance on whippy swords. They put all their swords through the 'flex test' - even the types that really shouldn't have that kind of flex (their estoc, for instance, really does not have the rigidity an estoc should).

Cold Steel also deserves a mention, but unfortunately they have really high prices for their market base -- and in my opinion MRL is better in terms of quality for an often lower price. Still worth looking into though, for those interested.


Albion, Arms & Armor, and Atrim would be my choices if I was in the market for a high end production piece.


Absolutely. And even then there's differences. ATrims are, as I'm sure you know, cutting swords. Not so pretty and meant to be used for cutting tests. They're "performance" swords. Although ATrims can look really gorgeous when fully dressed by Christian Fletcher. That man's a genuis.

Meanwhile, Albions tend to be slightly lower in terms of 'performance' - but better looking and occasionally even more historically accurate.

The Albion Squire has been one of my favourite swords ever since it was produced, along with the Yoeman and the Sovereign. In case you haven't been over there in awhile - the Condottiere is now finished and it is -gorgeous-.


Are the wooden swords (2handed and Viking) realistic other than that they are wood?


Being made of wood is entirely accurate. The medieval and even late migration periods were full of wooden swords - also called 'wasters.' They were used for practice by both adults and children. The Viking version is not accurate, however -- too long and narrow for a proper Viking sword. Odysseus already said all this - but hey, there you go. I'm just adding my agreement, really.
Forge not works of art but swords of death, for therein lies great art.
"The Gods made heavy metal and they saw that it was good." - Manowar
User avatar
Damien
Grammer Guru
 
Posts: 590
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2005 3:50 pm
Location: MA - USA

Next

Return to Medieval Life

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron