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Postby Sir Kohran » Sun Nov 25, 2007 1:14 pm

Asterios wrote:
Sir Kohran wrote:
Asterios wrote:Ok essentially i have not read the book or seen the movie ,but a little bit of back History the Church (Roman Catholic Diocese) Was very anti-Technology or Anti-Science,so i'm guessing thats what the Basis of this book is about since the Church considered Science and Technology tools of the Devil,too which we all know such backward thinking would have us still in the stone age.


I don't think you can say what the basis of the book is if you haven't actually read it.

As far as I know, the basis for the book is this: the author, Pullman, is a militant atheist, so in his books God and the church are shown as oppressive tyrants and Satan as a good guy trying to spread independence and knowledge.

Whilst there are the infamous cases of Galileo and Darwin, I don't think the Church in general was ever 'anti-technology' or 'anti-science'. Remember that many of the famous scientists of the last few hundred years were religious people.

- Matt


I'd have to disagree while I am Christian I am anti-Churchianity which is against what Jesus taught and God meant,the Church was created by Man not God and not endorsed by God,but thats my opinion and should not be considered Fact,furthermore you Quote only Galileo and Darwin but you forget many others like Sir Isaac Newton who was excommunicated by the Pope for his Heretical leanings in Science like Gravity.


To a certain extent I agree with you on the matter of churches, but that's not the point. Pullman does not oppose just churches, he opposes all religion, including God, and this comes through in his work.

When was Isaac Newton excommunicated? I couldn't find anything it, and apparently he was a Christian himself - he even said:

Sir Isaac Newton wrote:Gravity explains the motions of the planets, but it cannot explain who set the planets in motion. God governs all things and knows all that is or can be done.


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Postby ericgizmo » Sun Nov 25, 2007 1:38 pm

Good heavens, I didn't realise we were considered to be so strange :shock:

I didnt mean it like that hmmmmmmmm i mean i am british but the movie would be weird to ummmmmmm chinese people during europes dark ages (i dont know what i mean, just i am not trying to be offensive)
srry

I am not allwoed to see this movie because of my Catohlic school sent out papers to tell children not to see the movie. the paper says the author wanted to kill the mind in children about god
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Postby Asterios » Sun Nov 25, 2007 10:56 pm

Sir Kohran wrote:
Asterios wrote:
Sir Kohran wrote:
Asterios wrote:Ok essentially i have not read the book or seen the movie ,but a little bit of back History the Church (Roman Catholic Diocese) Was very anti-Technology or Anti-Science,so i'm guessing thats what the Basis of this book is about since the Church considered Science and Technology tools of the Devil,too which we all know such backward thinking would have us still in the stone age.


I don't think you can say what the basis of the book is if you haven't actually read it.

As far as I know, the basis for the book is this: the author, Pullman, is a militant atheist, so in his books God and the church are shown as oppressive tyrants and Satan as a good guy trying to spread independence and knowledge.

Whilst there are the infamous cases of Galileo and Darwin, I don't think the Church in general was ever 'anti-technology' or 'anti-science'. Remember that many of the famous scientists of the last few hundred years were religious people.

- Matt


I'd have to disagree while I am Christian I am anti-Churchianity which is against what Jesus taught and God meant,the Church was created by Man not God and not endorsed by God,but thats my opinion and should not be considered Fact,furthermore you Quote only Galileo and Darwin but you forget many others like Sir Isaac Newton who was excommunicated by the Pope for his Heretical leanings in Science like Gravity.


To a certain extent I agree with you on the matter of churches, but that's not the point. Pullman does not oppose just churches, he opposes all religion, including God, and this comes through in his work.

When was Isaac Newton excommunicated? I couldn't find anything it, and apparently he was a Christian himself - he even said:

Sir Isaac Newton wrote:Gravity explains the motions of the planets, but it cannot explain who set the planets in motion. God governs all things and knows all that is or can be done.


- Matt


from what i've seen it looks like he has a very anti-church leaning but who knows i may be wrong.
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Postby Formendacil » Mon Nov 26, 2007 1:32 am

Discussion of the movie is well and good.

The discussion of religion is getting offtopic, and remember that religion tends to be a hot-button issue.

Let's get back to the movie, therefore.

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Postby Asterios » Mon Nov 26, 2007 4:52 am

Formendacil wrote:Discussion of the movie is well and good.

The discussion of religion is getting offtopic, and remember that religion tends to be a hot-button issue.

Let's get back to the movie, therefore.

~Michael A. Joosten - Moderator~


and here i thought this was a discussion about his motives behind the book which spawned the movie.
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Postby Sir Dano » Mon Nov 26, 2007 3:23 pm

after seeing the commercials for this, am I the only one who wishes that the LEGO polar bear could fit in the horse helmets?
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Postby Sir Kohran » Mon Nov 26, 2007 4:04 pm

(i dont know what i mean, just i am not trying to be offensive)
srry


No offense taken, I just laughed when I saw 'British people' listed as something 'weird'.

I am not allwoed to see this movie because of my Catohlic school sent out papers to tell children not to see the movie.


Seriously?! :shock:

the paper says the author wanted to kill the mind in children about god


I'm afraid this is pretty much true.

from what i've seen it looks like he has a very anti-church leaning but who knows i may be wrong


You're not. All his work, particularly the last book, has a pretty strong opposition to the church and God.

Discussion of the movie is well and good.

The discussion of religion is getting offtopic, and remember that religion tends to be a hot-button issue.


I wouldn't call it a discussion of religion - it's a discussion of Pullman's view of religion in the movie and books, not religion itself, and as long as discussion is calm and reasoned I think things will be fine. Granted, Sir Isaac Newton is a bit far out but it does sort of relate to the late Middle Ages.

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Postby J1A3L5 » Mon Nov 26, 2007 5:34 pm

I read the books a long time ago, and quite enjoyed them. After watching the trailer for the movie, I think it looks like it has a lot of promise and could be quite fun! I don't remember the books in great detail (it was many years ago when I read them) but I hope they didn't modify them too much.

The books had a strange appeal to all ages - I used to work in a library, and these three books were among the few that were in all the sections of the library: Children, Teen and Adult. And popular among them all.

Thanks for sharing!
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Postby ericgizmo » Mon Nov 26, 2007 10:04 pm

I dont know why they sent out flyers to the parents to tell the children to not see it because etc. Wouldnt that make the children pick up the topic if they see the movie and believe about no god? Little kids can not pick up stuff like that unless told to or had a talk with someone about it. The kids would just be interseted with the talking animals and battles. They wont pick what the author really means about god. Maybe the movie will be diffrent from the book like alot of movies based on a book.
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Postby wunztwice » Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:24 pm

Well, here I go...

I'm going to enter into the discussion, but try to steer as delicate a course as I can.

As far as the "look/feel" (technically the mood) of the film I love it. The steam-punk-esqu-ness of it really drew me in, and the various filters used in the editing (at least of the trailers) work very well.

I will most certainly be using stills from the film for MOC inspiration, and possibly some storylines.

That said in reference to the storyline I hesitate to go much further, but I would like to add my research/thoughts about it to the discussion.
Mr. Pullman is an ardent atheist, and his beliefs undoubtedly surface in the books (and most-likely the film). As a Film major I fully understand that it is the viewer who decides the final meaning of a film, and what they get from it. I know I will bet LEGO inspiration from many of the 'inventions' buzzing around the screen.

And now the touchy but important part:

I personally probably won't be watching the film, but from my standpoint (infer it from my signature) learning other's worldviews only serves to sharpen the mind and provide good SOLID foundation for discussion and debate.

And I'm done.
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Postby Tower of Iron Will » Thu Nov 29, 2007 9:23 pm

Formendacil wrote:Discussion of the movie is well and good.

The discussion of religion is getting offtopic, and remember that religion tends to be a hot-button issue.

Let's get back to the movie, therefore.

~Michael A. Joosten - Moderator~


This is very wise. I think that this thread should have been locked as soon as some members started discussing the author's personal views toward religion. The discussion should have been limited to the LEGO dimension but some members cannot resist pointing out religious aspects, which have no place here.
New LEGO weapons/items from the movie? I'll wait to let the movie show me and would decide then. If somehow I don't see the movie? Well then I'll let LEGO suprize me with a new item that I'll wonder where they found the inspriation. Does it matter that the Jedi hoods came from Star Wars or Harry Potter? Not to me.
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Postby ericgizmo » Fri Nov 30, 2007 2:52 am

Tower of Iron Will wrote:
Formendacil wrote:
This is very wise. I think that this thread should have been locked as soon as some members started discussing the author's personal views toward religion. The discussion should have been limited to the LEGO dimension but some members cannot resist pointing out religious aspects, which have no place here.
New LEGO weapons/items from the movie? I'll wait to let the movie show me and would decide then. If somehow I don't see the movie? Well then I'll let LEGO suprize me with a new item that I'll wonder where they found the inspriation. Does it matter that the Jedi hoods came from StarWars or Harry Potter? Not to me.
-Tower


Looks like u just got of topic with star wars and harry potter this is medevil life section last time i checked :P so dont complain about others :D
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Postby ottoatm » Fri Nov 30, 2007 4:23 am

Hi ericgizmo - you may notice the "moderator" graphic below Formendacil's avatar - that means it's his duty to "complain" about others. :wink: As for Iron Will's remarks, they were obviously in reference to using parts from other themes, no matter what the theme, for LEGO castle - something he thinks could apply here as well.

What Formendacil's trying to do with his post is subtly control the thread from flaming up, a move I had considered and think he was right to take... the topic of religion has been very sensitive in CC in the past, so I think our radar perks up a bit when we see it being discussed.

Either way, the CC members seem to be handling this thread well, so all is peaceful still.

As for the books and movie... I had never heard of either before this thread - not from my Christian friends or secular friends... this thread has been quite educational for me... I have no desire to see/read either, but I guess if a friend from either group wants to drag me to the movie, I could be convinced to go.
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Postby ericgizmo » Fri Nov 30, 2007 8:06 pm

I am sorry i didnt mean to have Formendacil as the quotue i was trying to talk to tower of iron will i am sorry for my mistake i stink at quteing(i cant even spell it) i wasnt trying to argue with Formendacil or get him or her into what i was trying to say




sorry
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Postby Sir Kohran » Sat Dec 01, 2007 1:26 am

I think that this thread should have been locked as soon as some members started discussing the author's personal views toward religion.


Why? Has anything offensive been posted here? Has anyone been insulted? All I see is reasonable discussion. I am glad the admins/mods have not been condescending and have left this open for us to discuss.

The discussion should have been limited to the LEGO dimension but some members cannot resist pointing out religious aspects, which have no place here.


This is the Medieval Life forum. Discussion can go beyond LEGO. And if we're discussing a book/movie which has views on religion, then surely (reasonable) discussion on religious aspects should be allowed?

Either way, the CC members seem to be handling this thread well, so all is peaceful still.


Thanks, it is good to see we are trusted on a matter like this :)

As for the books and movie... I had never heard of either before this thread - not from my Christian friends or secular friends... this thread has been quite educational for me... I have no desire to see/read either, but I guess if a friend from either group wants to drag me to the movie, I could be convinced to go.


I first heard of them at primary school, but I had just begun reading LOTR and so I was pretty much oblivious to them. A year or two later at high school my teacher recommended I read them. I found them difficult to understand but got through them all.

As for the movie...from the trailers I have to say I'm a little disappointed. The book was very gritty and mature, whereas the film seems to be another Narnia-style 'family adventure', full of glitz, over the top choirs and CGI. Perhaps if I do see the movie at some point I might change my mind. Like ottoatm I'll probably end up getting dragged along as well.

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