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Wow Medieval torture devices

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Wow Medieval torture devices

Postby lego fanatic » Fri Feb 22, 2008 9:01 pm

Hey all i was just looked up medieval prison carriages on Google and stumbled upon this site about Medieval Torture devices http://www.medievality.com/torture.html . After reading this i was shocked i thought i had it bad when i got my mouth washed out with soap but in Medieval Times punishment is a lot worse.
Tell me what you think about Torture devices.

P.S sorry i got Aliencat's avatar i was testing with it about seeing how big mine should be. So sorry i will get it removed ASAP.
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Postby Jansen » Wed Mar 19, 2008 12:49 pm

It's disgusting, thats what it is! I can't comprehend the pain those poor people went through because priests said they had committed heresy. That is one of several things that the human race has done that makes me almost puke. Who was the real "good guy", the one that killed in the name of religion or the poor soul who has to be tortured? The whole idea is just nauseating. :evil:
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Postby wobnam » Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:50 pm

It's not better today - just different.

Thanks for posting this. Might come in handy for inspiration for creations.
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Postby Heir of Black Falcon » Wed Mar 19, 2008 6:38 pm

Be careful with the information gathered online and medieval torture in general as it is usually done for and by poular historians with little to no background. It happened for sure but I'd wager it was not terribly common. At least in England it often was not smiled upon, though it depends on the crime. There are loads of civil legal accounts by people claiming to have been tortured to the king for justice. Typically punishments go along with a specific crime and in those days corporal punishment was seen as better than just killing people. By Edward III's reign spending time in the pillary or stocks was common for many crimes.

As someone fairly familar with medieval town criminal punishment most often they fine you or disenfranchise you, king and other nobles likely to do the same... money is more useful than messes. There is a big exception.... traitors. They did these types of punishments to convince others not to do the same.

Jansen,

Hardly fair to blame the church leaders when others likely were more responsible for torture then them. Sadly the Spanish inquisition has convinced so many people it was common when it was not and more to the point was directed by the secular lords more than local clergy more often than not. While not Catholic myself, this church basically was one of the few sources of temporal welfare in the period for the sick, poor and weary as well as the protectors of the commoners in many cases so best to study and learn more than judge harshly those who likely do not deserve it.

R
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Postby Jansen » Wed Mar 19, 2008 7:03 pm

Heir of Black Falcon wrote:
Jansen,

Hardly fair to blame the church leaders when others likely were more responsible for torture then them. Sadly the Spanish inquisition has convinced so many people it was common when it was not and more to the point was directed by the secular lords more than local clergy more often than not. While not Catholic myself, this church basically was one of the few sources of temporal welfare in the period for the sick, poor and weary as well as the protectors of the commoners in many cases so best to study and learn more than judge harshly those who likely do not deserve it.

R


I get what your saying and you probably right that it was far less common than thought of, and that the church helped people. But I find the fact that when the Church or Inquisition did use horrible torture, it was extremely hypocritical and ironic that the "good Christians " used it. I have nothing against any religion at all, I'm just telling my thoughts about torture.
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Re: Wow Medieval torture devices

Postby Aliencat » Wed Mar 19, 2008 9:17 pm

lego fanatic wrote:P.S sorry i got Aliencat's avatar i was testing with it about seeing how big mine should be. So sorry i will get it removed ASAP.

's alright, hope you got it working now my friend :)

wobnam wrote:Thanks for posting this. Might come in handy for inspiration for creations.

My thought exactly, those new freaked out faces would go great on a torture device in a dark bluish grey dungeon :)
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Postby Sir Kohran » Wed Mar 19, 2008 9:23 pm

Jansen wrote:
Heir of Black Falcon wrote:
Jansen,

Hardly fair to blame the church leaders when others likely were more responsible for torture then them. Sadly the Spanish inquisition has convinced so many people it was common when it was not and more to the point was directed by the secular lords more than local clergy more often than not. While not Catholic myself, this church basically was one of the few sources of temporal welfare in the period for the sick, poor and weary as well as the protectors of the commoners in many cases so best to study and learn more than judge harshly those who likely do not deserve it.

R


I get what your saying and you probably right that it was far less common than thought of, and that the church helped people. But I find the fact that when the Church or Inquisition did use horrible torture, it was extremely hypocritical and ironic that the "good Christians " used it. I have nothing against any religion at all, I'm just telling my thoughts about torture.


Well, yes, it was somewhat hypocritical. But history is full of such instances - there were many Americans who fought for 'freedom' whilst owning black slaves and oppressing the red Indians, or the British politicians and generals who encouraged millions of young men to fight and die in World War I, whilst they themselves stayed safely behind (Haig comes to mind :evil: ).

Also, as Heir pointed out, it wasn't solely religious issues that torture instruments were used for - all sorts of crimes, even petty theft, could potentially land you in such a position (trials back then were often biased, or sometimes weren't bothered with at all).


But I think we can all agree that such devices were truly horrific. Just reading some of the descriptions made me shudder:




'The Judas Cradle, a terrible medieval torture where the victim would be placed on top of a pyramid-like seat. The victim's feet were tied to each other in a way that moving one leg would force the other to move as well - increasing pain.

The triangular-shaped end of the judas cradle was inserted in the victim's anus or vagina. This torture could last, depending on some factors discussed below, anywhere from a few hours to complete days.

The time it took someone to die varied enormously from individual to individual. Torturers would sometimes add weight to the victim's legs as to increase pain and hurry the victim's death. Other torturers would place oil on the device which increased pain considerably.

This device was rarely, if at all, washed. If the victim did not die quickly enough, or their painful execution was interrupted, they would invariantly die from an infection.

The victim was sometimes rocked or made fall repeatedly onto the "pyramid". This was done so torturers could acquire vital information from the victim. If he or she refused to talk, the torturer would either add more weight to the victim or make him or her fall repeatedly on the device.
'



'The Iron Maiden, otherwise known as the Virgin of Nuremberg, was a device used from the XVI century to torture criminals.

It stands 7 feet tall and is able to accommodate a man. The victim was tied inside the Maiden and one of the two doors was shut, penetrating the victim's flesh with the strategically-placed spikes that didn't penetrate any vital organs. When completely closed, the screams from the victim could not be heard outside, nor could the victim see any light or hear anything. This increased the psychological pain. Additionally, the spikes blocked the wounds so it took many hours - or even days - for death to occur.

If the door was opened, the victim would stand in the exact same position so if the torturer chose to close the door again, the spikes would penetrate the exact same wounds. Sometimes the door was intermittently closed to maximise the victim's pain without delivering death.
'



'There are many variants of the chair. They all have one thing in common: spikes cover the back, arm-rests, seat, leg-rests and foot-rests. The number of spikes in one of these chairs ranges from 500 to 1,500.

To avoid movement, the victim's wrists were tied to the chair or, in one version, two bars pushed the arms against arm-rests for the spikes to penetrate the flesh even further. In some versions, there were holes under the chair's bottom where the torturer placed coal to cause severe burns while the victim still remained conscious.

This instrument's strength lies primarily in the psychological fear caused on the victims. It was a common practice to extract a confession by forcing the victim to watch someone else be tortured with this instrument.

The time of death greatly varied ranging from a few hours to a day or more. No spike penetrated any vital organ and the wound was closed by the spike itself which delayed blood loss greatly.
'



:shock:
Last edited by Sir Kohran on Thu Mar 05, 2009 8:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Jansen » Wed Mar 19, 2008 11:28 pm

I agree with you Sir Kohran, especially with the Americans holding slaves and oppressing the American Indians (Trail of Tears, Wounded Knee, etc; which I hate! Land of the free, home of the brave, huh? :roll:

And with the church thing, I was just trying to point out the crazy hypocrisy with it, not to say that they were the only ones that did it or they did it the most.

Torture is horrible and it is sad that even the US uses it still, not as bad as that stuff, but they use water boarding.
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Postby Tower of Iron Will » Fri Mar 21, 2008 3:05 pm

As my sig states, Power corrupts, whether a secular government or religious. As a Catholic, I am soo ashamed of what happend during the Crusades and the Inquisition. But as I grow older I realized that its just human nature for any "state" to do anything to stay in power. Not that it makes such behavior more palatable. And when a "state" has power, look out! Any contrary thought or actions that make the State look bad and wham! In the midieval europe example, torture was used to keep the rest of the 'sheep' in line. Even our own US Govt uses it - disgusting, vial, and not what our founding fathers wanted.

As far as LEGO MOCs are concerned its up to the builder. I don't think having such devises in a MOC are inherently bad, especially for an "Evil" castle. To have them in a dungeon emphasizes the mindset of the castle owner, not the MOC creator.
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Postby wobnam » Mon Mar 24, 2008 12:13 am

I've been avoiding this thread because I think it easily could go in a direction that would be in violation of the political/religious views rule, but on using torture devices in creations (and because I don't want people to misunderstand my "thanks for posting"-reply), I'll say this:

LEGO creations are art. Art can have many purposes, but it's obvious many artists would like their art to have some impact on someone else, to start some sort of though process or discussion or whatever. Political and religious history aside; these devices existed. If art, including LEGO creations, were to pretend they never did, that would be unfortunate. I'm not saying all art has to provoke, of course, but some art definitely should.

It's late, I'm tired - but I guess what I'm trying to say is that using these torture devices in creations doesn't (have to) mean you think they were cool, only that they were.
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Postby Voran_the_Scholar » Fri Mar 28, 2008 5:10 pm

Jansen wrote:I
And with the church thing, I was just trying to point out the crazy hypocrisy with it, not to say that they were the only ones that did it or they did it the most.
they use water boarding.


Sadly, Jansen, that age was not an age where people called themselves Christians because of their love for God or because they followed God. When the Church became a state religion, it became a source of political power. The Pope in those days was practically the most powerful person in all of Europe, and he wasn't afraid to use that power to achieve his own ends. Times have changed since then, but the fact remains: the Inquisition and other institutions like it do not reflect poorly on Christianity, but on the people who claimed to be Christians.

As to why that could be, it can be pointed out that all church services in those days were given in Latin, which only clergymen could understand. Thus most people had no idea what the Word of God said, and had very little idea of the example Jesus set. So they looked to the church leaders for an example to follow. And since most church leaders held the position only because they wanted the power, the common folk clearly used their actions to condone their own actions. It wasn't until the Reformation later on that the Bible began to be translated into the common languages for people to read and understand for themselves.
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Postby melonkernel » Tue May 13, 2008 6:48 am

So that we won't be too depressed, here is an alternative.

Monty Python - Spanish Inquisition Torture Scene:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSe38dzJYkY
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