Classic-Castle.com


The source for all your LEGO Castle needs!

Royal marriage is what brings us together today

Discussion of topics concerning life in the middle ages around the world, including architecture, history, and warfare.

Royal marriage is what brings us together today

Postby Hewkiril » Sat Nov 29, 2008 2:26 am

Sir Prog wrote:The new maidens due in 09' are, how we say, far more attractive than the Queens of Castle History. Tis true what they say how the reproduction of royalty!? :?


What is it that they say about the reproduction of royalty? Actually scratch that, I'd rather not know. :P

I'm quite looking forward to this fig - that hairpiece will be quite useful, and it seems that most of the female faces are exactly the same.
User avatar
Hewkiril
Laborer
 
Posts: 140
Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2006 9:35 pm
Location: Ontario, yep I'm a backwards igloo dweller

Postby Sir Prog » Sat Nov 29, 2008 2:54 am

Hewkiril wrote:
Sir Prog wrote:The new maidens due in 09' are, how we say, far more attractive than the Queens of Castle History. Tis true what they say how the reproduction of royalty!? :?


What is it that they say about the reproduction of royalty? Actually scratch that, I'd rather not know. :P

I'm quite looking forward to this fig - that hairpiece will be quite useful, and it seems that most of the female faces are exactly the same.


Nothing inappropriate. But historically, they had to keep it in the family. Literally. Cousins, siblings, and all that. Luckily, the lowly townspeople have produced a wonderful young maiden....or long lost princess?!? :wink:
For the King's Castle!
User avatar
Sir Prog
Laborer
 
Posts: 138
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2008 2:15 am
Location: The Yukon Plains of Oklahoma

Postby Heir of Black Falcon » Sat Nov 29, 2008 7:55 am

Sir Prog,

That’s a somewhat overly simplistic and almost completely incorrect view of royalty/nobilities marriage practices. At least in the medieval period they were theoretically limited by the eight degrees of blood which is much further than modern standards. They only way around this was by getting papal permission which fairly often was refused if close in degree. There are of course exceptions but marrying siblings was not acceptable and first cousins happens, but only a fraction to those marrying outside the family. Heirs to the throne were needed to marry powerful monarchs from outside the kingdom which keeps inbreeding out and the rest could marry from any of the thousands of noble families in Europe. This issue is more common actually after the medieval period had soundly come to an end. Way to much research and information around for this idea to still be around.

R
There ain't nothin' girlie about a tunic...
User avatar
Heir of Black Falcon
Justiciar
 
Posts: 1967
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2008 3:37 pm
Location: Utah (I'm baaaack)

Postby natelite » Thu Dec 04, 2008 12:26 am

Assassin wrote:natelite

if you read my post carefully, you will find that I did NOT come to a conclusion.

I happen to have been browsing the custom section earlier and noticed the designs. What I DID say, was that the designs looked very much like the queen and shaman and that the design "might" - (please note the word MIGHT) have come from him.

And considering that there was nothing posted on his page to indicate that he was re-creating the LEGO designs, I think it was a logical mistake to make.

As for research, is there any thread mentioning that Roaglaan was attempting to copy them ?

personally, I find your reply condescending and just a touch arrogant


sorry, but no more arrogant than you for not reading the first post of this thread.

on the topic of nobility though, even 8th cousins are still very much inbred. look no further than the endangered species. if tigers, with only 1k or 5k population face inbreeding problems what makes you think royalties with far fewer numbers won't?
natelite
Foot Soldier
 
Posts: 209
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 8:45 pm

Postby Heir of Black Falcon » Thu Dec 04, 2008 7:31 am

Natelite,

According to 99% of the history, archaeology and anthropology books I have had to read over the last decade(s) that is not true with humans. Typically according to most scientific research I have seen indicates inbreeding within the first generation often produces expression of recessive traits which is where the abnormalities come in. I have seen nothing that indicates up to and after 8 generations would do this to any significant way.

Current inbreeding laws in most countries also reflect this, most limiting to first cousins, though, in many states and countries this is allowed. I have never seen a single country/state define inbreeding as 8th or 9th cousins and if it is done it would be the exception not the rule, likely from this old custom. Since they mostly enforce these laws likely to prevent such bad gene combo's I highly doubt that this an issue so far removed.

The relation to tigers and nobility or royalty is rather/completely different. 1-5k is hugely different for royals marriage pool as I mentioned above. There likely were hundreds or, thousands of them if including cadet lines, in all Europe true but they were not limited to just marriage to this group but the nobility and at times even outside this even. Marriages are made between new noble families in the 14th and 15th further increasing the gene pool so to speak. As I said earlier, this topic has been often enough been researched that it is not something that needs guessing at only looking up one of many decent books on medieval marriage or marriage practices.

As I mentioned earlier it becomes more common later to marry first and second cousins but not so much in the medieval, though it happens at times. 1st cousins is where you'd likely see genetic issues... some in the secondary but every line out is another massive jump in the unlikelyhood of any abnormal traits appearing. A fairly recent study in Iceland showed no(few) abnormal issues with 3rd and 4th cousins and that they actually had many benefits (Not advocating this BTW but there it is). You can see it from the Journal Science of either Jan or Feb 2008 cannot remember.

If those would like to continue this topic would mind switching to the pm so we do not hijack this thread further I can find/provide all the info needed.

R
There ain't nothin' girlie about a tunic...
User avatar
Heir of Black Falcon
Justiciar
 
Posts: 1967
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2008 3:37 pm
Location: Utah (I'm baaaack)

Postby architect » Thu Dec 04, 2008 1:49 pm

This sub topic has been split and moved.

Ben
CC Sets Admin
User avatar
architect
Baron von Ellermann
Baron von Ellermann
 
Posts: 4732
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2003 5:10 pm
Location: Saint Louis, MO USA


Return to Medieval Life

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest