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Postby Jacob C. » Mon Feb 21, 2005 6:51 pm

Their mouths and throats are coated with Asbestos.

If that is the case, then wouldn't their lungs get damaged from always breathing that asbestos in?
It would probably lessen their life span which could explain why the Dragons died out :lol:
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Postby Dragon Master » Mon Feb 21, 2005 8:41 pm

There is a neat little min-doc on the making of it on On-Demand Comcast. Check it out!
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Postby doctorsparkles » Mon Feb 21, 2005 10:52 pm

Robin Hood wrote:Not necessarily , the dragons might have some fire proof guts, protecting all the internal organs. I mean the human stomach is pretty tough to withstand stomach acid. Its possible that the fire organ and all the wall of the pipes leading to mouth of a dragon are made out of some fire resistant material.

The acid reflux that I'm feeling at this very moment is testament to the fact that our stomachs don't protect from acid all that well, but that's besides the point.
Are there any chemists or biologists among us? I would like to know if there is any organic substance that could possibly be found in a reptile that would be both fire resistant and insulate heat well enough to keep it from spreading to and damaging nearby internal organs, and would also allow the animal to maintain a steady body temperature.
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Postby Dragon Master » Mon Feb 21, 2005 11:15 pm

doctorsparkles wrote: At this very moment is testament to the fact that our stomachs don't protect from acid all that well, but that's besides the point.
Are there any chemists or biologists among us? I would like to know if there is any organic substance that could possibly be found in a reptile that would be both fire resistant and insulate heat well enough to keep it from spreading to and damaging nearby internal organs, and would also allow the animal to maintain a steady body temperature.


Bruce, is a proffesor of Chemistry I think. But I'm sure when we see the special all these questions will be answered.

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Postby JPinoy » Tue Feb 22, 2005 4:39 am

First off, Hydrochloric Acid (HCl) is the strongest acid there is. It can dissolve metal for goodness sakes! This acid is inside our stomachs.

Now the flesh of our stomach isn't resistant to acid by itself. It does however, possess glands that produces a mucous that lines the stomach that protects the flesh from the acid; through neutralization as this mucous is a base. This mucous is always produced, cuz it goes through the digestive system like all other things that is in our stomachs, including the acid. Sometimes the gland doesn't always produce, and you get those "burns" in your stomach.

Acid reflux or Heart Burn is different in that it goes up your esophagus, which has a much thinner lining of mucous compared to the stomach where the HCl acid is the most concentrated.

Im no chemist or biologist, just a Nursing student here... I have to know this medical stuff. :wink: 8) Im going for APN (Advanced Practice Nurse) or NP (Nurse Practioner).

And I wrote all that from memory from an Anatomy & Physiology class I took over 1 year ago, which I got a 93 (or A-) on. So don't get all competitive and start looking up medical websites that carries far more info than my brain. :P

-----

Now... considering how us mere humans possess the ability to not be severely damaged by the acid that we carry, I'd assume that if Dragons did exist, they too would have a similar mechanism that protects them from the hydrogen & fire in their bellies. Not to mention that its not too far off the imagination to have glands that can produce a natural fire-retardent mucous in the dragon's mouth, throat, and stomach. :P
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Postby doctorsparkles » Tue Feb 22, 2005 5:20 am

JPinoy wrote:First off, Hydrochloric Acid (HCl) is the strongest acid there is. It can dissolve metal for goodness sakes! This acid is inside our stomachs.

Now the flesh of our stomach isn't resistant to acid by itself. It does however, possess glands that produces a mucous that lines the stomach that protects the flesh from the acid; through neutralization as this mucous is a base. This mucous is always produced, cuz it goes through the digestive system like all other things that is in our stomachs, including the acid. Sometimes the gland doesn't always produce, and you get those "burns" in your stomach.

Acid reflux or Heart Burn is different in that it goes up your esophagus, which has a much thinner lining of mucous compared to the stomach where the HCl acid is the most concentrated.

Im no chemist or biologist, just a Nursing student here... I have to know this medical stuff. :wink: 8) Im going for APN (Advanced Practice Nurse) or NP (Nurse Practioner).

And I wrote all that from memory from an Anatomy & Physiology class I took over 1 year ago, which I got a 93 (or A-) on. So don't get all competitive and start looking up medical websites that carries far more info than my brain. :P

-----

Now... considering how us mere humans possess the ability to not be severely damaged by the acid that we carry, I'd assume that if Dragons did exist, they too would have a similar mechanism that protects them from the hydrogen & fire in their bellies. Not to mention that its not too far off the imagination to have glands that can produce a natural fire-retardent mucous in the dragon's mouth, throat, and stomach. :P

My apologies. I chose what I thought to be a generic term for the pain that I was feeling in my stomach. However, and I'm really not trying to be competitive here, but considering that stomach ulcers run in my family, I do know first hand that the mucous membrane of the stomach doesn't always hold up as it should.
It should also be noted that the strength of an acid depends not only on its chemical makeup but on its concentration as well. You also can't judge strength of a substance by a specific reaction. Yes, hydrocloric acid reacts with some metals, but it reacts differently with non-metals. During one of my high school lab experiments, I got hydrocloric acid all over my hands, and all I had to show for it was some dry skin. This is the same substance at the same concentration that we were using to dissolve coins, magnesium strips, etc.
But all of this is really meaningless, because I fail to see the parallel between a substance that resists a specific chemical reaction and a substance or mechanism that is both resistant to extreme heat and works as an insulator.
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Postby JPinoy » Tue Feb 22, 2005 5:39 am

Maybe in time we'll have the bio-technology to genetically engineer a Dragon creature that will have those fire-retardent mucouses and etc.
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Postby Dragon Master » Tue Feb 22, 2005 11:18 am

JPinoy wrote:Maybe in time we'll have the bio-technology to genetically engineer a Dragon creature that will have those fire-retardent mucouses and etc.


And God willing, no one will be stupid enough to make one :wink:
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Postby davee123 » Wed Feb 23, 2005 8:43 pm

So-- two issues:

1) How would the hydrogen get ignited on the way out?
2) Isn't it safe to say there's no sparks going off inside the dragon to set off the hydrogen?
3) Even if there were sparks, does the lack of oxygen inside the body prevent an explosion?
4) If the spark starts in the mouth, is it possible that the speed at which the gas is escaping the body is sufficient to prevent spread further inside the dragon?

Did anyone ever see Flight Of Dragons? (God, that cover art looks so heinous). Their explanation for dragons went something like:

- Dragons consume limestone (in addition to regular food)
- Dragons steal gems to grind the limestone up
- Limestone, with stomach acid, produces hydrogen
- Hydrogen, being lighter than air, gives the dragons extra "lift" to ease flying
- They've got a small electric "thimble" in their mouth that ignites the hydrogen when they breathe out the hydrogen
- Breathing too much fire reduces the amount of hydrogen in them, causing them to lose altitude or prevent them from flying.
- Because they ignite most "bedding" (like hay, grass, trees, etc), dragons prefer to find a soft metal to sleep on, AKA, gold hordes.

Kinda silly in most regards, but interesting nonetheless. There was also a solution that some other movie had, but I forget the name. Action flick a few years ago where dragons had taken over the Earth and "ate ash". IIRC they had dragons secrete two seperate chemicals from their mouths that exploded on contact, like napalm. Probably makes more sense than the hydrogen scenario, since you'd (I'm guessing) need a LOT of hydrogen to produce any useful amount of fire. Of course, that was a much worse movie, IMHO. ("That layer of ash around the earth wasn't from a volcanic era in Earth's geologic history! No, it was Dragons!" [shudder])

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Postby Lord_Of_The_LEGO » Wed Feb 23, 2005 9:13 pm

I find it easier simply to blame magic as the solution for fire-breathing dragons. :wink:
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Postby Umgarla » Wed Feb 23, 2005 9:19 pm

Doh! magic of course! Why didn't I think of that earlier?!? :wink:
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Postby porschecm2 » Wed Feb 23, 2005 9:28 pm

Or perhaps they simply work like the bombardier beetle.

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Postby doctorsparkles » Wed Feb 23, 2005 10:38 pm

davee123 wrote:IIRC they had dragons secrete two seperate chemicals from their mouths that exploded on contact, like napalm. Probably makes more sense than the hydrogen scenario, since you'd (I'm guessing) need a LOT of hydrogen to produce any useful amount of fire.

I would say that this scenario could be feasible, as long as the two chemicals are being mixed after they exit the dragon's body.
The hydrogen explanation doesn't make sense to me because, as you said, you'd need a lot of it to sustain the flame. I've blown up balloons full of hydrogen before (blown up as in inflated and exploded), and the reaction begins and is over in a split second.

porschecm2 wrote:Or perhaps they simply work like the bombardier beetle.

This is the type of explanation I was looking for. Apparently the bombardier beetle is able to safely create an explosive reaction inside of its body. Granted, it's not quite the extreme temperature that we think of when a dragon's flame comes to mind (100 degrees Celsius is enough to ignite many substances, but once the source of heat is removed, they will cease to burn), but it's hot enough to boil water, so it's a step in the right direction.
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Postby JoshWedin » Thu Feb 24, 2005 3:17 am

davee123 wrote:There was also a solution that some other movie had, but I forget the name. Action flick a few years ago where dragons had taken over the Earth and "ate ash".

DaveE


"Reign of Fire" with Christian Bale and Matthew McConaughey. The dragon's fire is described as "natural napalm". One of my favorites!

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Postby Farithdir » Sun Feb 27, 2005 4:01 am

It is undebatable that the dragon originated in Siberia. Over time, there was a shortage of food.There it split into three groups-Some headed to Europe, others to China in an attempt to find new sources of nutrition. A third group followed it's favorite prey, humans, over the land bridge into north america.


As for the fire, it can be explained quite simply: Dragons are not of this world!

When there shuttle crashed, this highly advanced culture was forced to live primitively on this new world. They were the real rulers of all ancient civilizations, and King Ramses of Egypt was a dragon, as well as the entire Su dynasty in China, and a few popes. They used humans as their slaves to build such things as the pyramids, Great Wall of China, Hagia Sophia, and even The Tower of Babel.

In 1392, Merlinus Aquisas III summoned the power of Normandys wizards and began a crusade to rid the world of this scourge.

The reason America has thrived is our civilization is the first not to be ruled by dragons.
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