Analyzing 7036 Dwarves' Mine

[Asterios]

Even so, it's the most dependable 'no' or 'yes' that we have. Again, what makes you so sure of yourself? How do you know what the Lego reps don't?

one thing i know is the Dwarf set does not appear on any of the Spring order lists if it was going to be available it would be on the lists for the retailers to order.

also he does not say "No" or "Yes" in his response your reading that into it,he says he "Believes" that is a far cry from "No" or "Yes".

[HeartOfDarkness]

Is this evidence more concrete than a Lego rep's decisive word?

[Asterios]

Is this evidence more concrete than a Lego rep's decisive word?

to me it is,since i've stated before i take a LEGO reps word with a pinch of salt since they don't know much more then any other LEGO AFOL they only know what LEGO tells them nothing more.

and i repeat there is no decisive LEGO rep word given yet and there will be none unless its already know to the community at large.

[HeartOfDarkness]

they don't know much more then any other LEGO AFOL they only know what LEGO tells them nothing more.

Which is probably substantially more than what an average AFOL knows. Besides, why would Lego tell them about something they had no intention of doing? Something that would be a horrid business move, to boot? All I'm saying is that I would doubt your sources before a Lego rep's.

[Asterios]

they don't know much more then any other LEGO AFOL they only know what LEGO tells them nothing more.

Which is probably substantially more than what an average AFOL knows. Besides, why would Lego tell them about something they had no intention of doing? Something that would be a horrid business move, to boot? All I'm saying is that I would doubt your sources before a Lego rep's.

uh you might want to go up a few posts and read what a LEGO's rep said about the Vikings like i said Heart you can believe something that was never said but it doesn't mean it will be right.

like i said they only know what LEGO tells them, but LEGO doesn't tell them everything,or even the truth all the time.

LEGO looks at Reps as an evil they must put up with a way of making the LEGO community feel like LEGO is working with them.

[HeartOfDarkness]

uh you might want to go up a few posts and read what a LEGO's rep said about the Vikings like i said Heart you can believe something that was never said but it doesn't mean it will be right.

Even so, this was an isolated thing. Perhaps if you got both tidbits of information from the same source, I would take this more seriously, but how do we know that it would happen again? Surely there are plenty more times when a Lego rep has been right.

LEGO looks at Reps as an evil they must put up with a way of making the LEGO community feel like LEGO is working with them.

I'm sorry, but this sort of oversteps the line for me. I do believe that Lego wants to please its customers. If not for a sense of quality, at the very least to keep their counsumer base. I'm afraid I have to go now. It's been fun chatting.

[Asterios]

uh you might want to go up a few posts and read what a LEGO's rep said about the Vikings like i said Heart you can believe something that was never said but it doesn't mean it will be right.

Even so, this was an isolated thing. Perhaps if you got both tidbits of information from the same source, I would take this more seriously, but how do we know that it would happen again? Surely there are plenty more times when a Lego rep has been right.

LEGO looks at Reps as an evil they must put up with a way of making the LEGO community feel like LEGO is working with them.

I'm sorry, but this sort of oversteps the line for me. I do believe that Lego wants to please its customers. If not for a sense of quality, at the very least to keep their counsumer base. I'm afraid I have to go now. It's been fun chatting.

ah yes,lets see how they want to please us,they change colors,change quality to a worse quality saying its to save money,but at the same time increase the cost for us to buy these sets,recently LEGO has turned out quality product akin to MegaBlock which saddens me,but yes they do try to keep their customers happy.

and yes LEGO reps are right when its information we the Community already know about,when has a LEGO rep informed us of something we didn't already know about?

[speaknspell]

I'm not really interested in getting in an argument here, but I just wanted to point out that I pulled my information from the release plan thats been published on our internal server. its the information that follows how the forecasts have been set up in order to show the planned distribution for the coming year. I'm not trying to trick or mislead. I'm simply giving you the verbatim information I read off the release plan for this set.

one thing, the viking sets were originally developed 'only' for europe in the same way the dino attack sets were developed 'only' for the US. it was one of the first times (if not the first time) that had ever been done and the demand that came for the lines in the opposing markets brought about a change of mind as to how the sets would be distributed from that point on. in short, the company changed its mind.

I'll agree that sometimes moulds don't get used to their full potential, and its not always the most efficient use of money, especially in the time period between approximately 1997-2005. After that the plan for elements was to significantly reduce complexity by only allowing a certain amount of new parts to be made per year per line as well as they are relevant to the set or line as a whole.

The plan was to also reduce the total number of elements in the entire pallette. Part of that involves having parts cross the themes better so that development costs for new elements balance better.

All this said, you'll still be seeing parts that won't happen very often. I'm pretty sure the idol in the Indiana Jones set will only find its way into one or two other things, if even that. Sometimes the designers simply want an element in order to make the set more relevant. I was actually on the initial design team that worked on the new Castle line so I remember when all of the dwarf concepts were created. multiple beards like we've seen here were in the plan even then (I was on the orc/troll team). What works out though is that the team will be able to stretch those beards across the whole of 2008, and they managed to make them happen with 'this' years budget.

Will these parts be prominent for years to come? Like Tony said it probably depends on the success of the line. What I do want to emphasize is that with the restrictions on how many elements are in the pallette along with how much developing a new element costs, no element is developed flippantly anymore like it was 5 years ago.

Steve

[SavaTheAggie]

ok heres one over on the lug which can be verified in a thread how Jake McKee almighty LEGO Rep insisted that the "New" Viking sets would only be available in the US thru S@H and not thru retail those are his words seen here http://news.lugnet.com/lego/?n=3211

All,

Sorry for the delay in getting posting this info. I’ve been crazy busy lately (when you aren’t traveling, people are actually able to get ahold of you!), and still trying to catch up.

There has been some question about the releases of Dino Attack and Vikings.

Vikings will be launching mainly in Europe. It’s pretty likely that we’ll carry the Vikings line worldwide through Shop At Home. (It looks like a done deal, but I’m still awaiting final final confirmation) There is, of course, a chance that LEGO Stores and/or very limited retail could happen, but I don’t have any info on that at this point - as you’ve seen in the past, these things tend to shift around.

Dino Attack will be carried only in North America. It will not be sold in Europe through retail or Shop At Home.

First off, to clarify (and save the need for me to don my fireproof suit), you WILL be able to acquire Vikings in North America this year - just not through retail.

Secondly, I’m sure you’re wondering why we’ve taken this course. Long story short, it’s the right strategy to try, business-wise.

Dino Attack is a line meant to appeal to North Americans consumers (i.e. NA kids). Vikings is a line meant to appeal more to European consumers (i.e. EU kids). We tend to try to release all product lines globally. Sometimes this works fine, sometimes not so much. The idea here is to create lines that appeal in a large way to each major region.

In addition, there is a metric ton of business decisions that went into making this call. I can’t/won’t get into all of them here, but you have to believe that this wasn’t a decision taken lightly or without thought. As the company works to regain its profitable status, we are listening more and more to both customers(i.e. Target, TRU, etc.) and consumers (i.e. kids and AFOLs) about what they’re interested in seeing on shelves.

Perhaps this divided strategy is a terrific idea, perhaps not. But it’s a direction we simply must take in order to see what happens. Again, I won’t argue the business thinking here, there’s simply too many issues that factor into the discussion - many of which I can’t share.

I know that some of you might be dissapointed that one line or the other is not on shelves in your local stores, but hopefully you can understand the importance of getting our feet back under us. We look forward to your help and support in this crucial year.

Jake
---
Jake McKee
Community Liaison
LEGO Community Team

and here is my response to him http://news.lugnet.com/lego/?n=3223 furthermore there was another post where more information was revealed but it vanished for some reason

Wow, are you really out of the loop, Rick. As was stated back at Brickfest 2005 in the talks with Kjeld and the rest of his ilk, as well as other websites, the Viking sets were originally intended as a European only release, but TRU pitched a fit and convinced LEGO to release the line as a TRU exclusive to North America. As Jake said in his post it could be a good idea or a bad one to split the sets up regionally, and quite obviously LEGO decided it was a bad idea and changed.

He even says in the beginning of the post the information he had was old - "Sorry for the delay in getting posting this info."

So Jake was right, but then the situation changed. It wasn't that Jake was wrong when he said what he said, the situation changed after the fact.

as it goes i know what i know,and when Tony wants to argue about me being wrong and steve right i ask you when has steve been right?and like i asked Tony are you so sure of what your rep says?willing to bet on it?

As far as Steve Witt goes, I know him personally, do you? I've spent time building with him, I've touched his bricks (well, it WAS his batman set). I've shared a meal with him on more than one occasion. I trust him, and if he says something will happen one way, I have no reason to believe otherwise.

As for you, I've known you on Bricklink, before you were banned, as well as here, and you've not changed. I have no reason to believe a word you have to say.

That said, why would I want to bet with you? If you are so poor, as you say you are, where you can't afford to save up for a single Dwarfs Mine set over some 6 month period in which it has been available, you have nothing to back up your words with. So why would I bet with you if you have nothing to offer, even if I was reasonably sure you'd keep your word?

--Tony

[Maedhros]

Asterios, you're still not giving us any of all the facts that you claim to have. And when it comes to the post by Jake McKee that you quoted I suggest you read it a little more carefully

There is, of course, a chance that LEGO Stores and/or very limited retail could happen, but I don’t have any info on that at this point - as you’ve seen in the past, these things tend to shift around.

He never denied that the Vikings would be available through other sources. He said that they might be, and he was also modest enough to confess that he wasn't sure.. as opposed to someone else's attitude

[Asterios]

the Question is will we be seeing the Elf/Goblin Exclusive set next year?

[Asterios]

ok heres one over on the lug which can be verified in a thread how Jake McKee almighty LEGO Rep insisted that the "New" Viking sets would only be available in the US thru S@H and not thru retail those are his words seen here http://news.lugnet.com/lego/?n=3211

All,

Sorry for the delay in getting posting this info. I’ve been crazy busy lately (when you aren’t traveling, people are actually able to get ahold of you!), and still trying to catch up.

There has been some question about the releases of Dino Attack and Vikings.

Vikings will be launching mainly in Europe. It’s pretty likely that we’ll carry the Vikings line worldwide through Shop At Home. (It looks like a done deal, but I’m still awaiting final final confirmation) There is, of course, a chance that LEGO Stores and/or very limited retail could happen, but I don’t have any info on that at this point - as you’ve seen in the past, these things tend to shift around.

Dino Attack will be carried only in North America. It will not be sold in Europe through retail or Shop At Home.

First off, to clarify (and save the need for me to don my fireproof suit), you WILL be able to acquire Vikings in North America this year - just not through retail.

Secondly, I’m sure you’re wondering why we’ve taken this course. Long story short, it’s the right strategy to try, business-wise.

Dino Attack is a line meant to appeal to North Americans consumers (i.e. NA kids). Vikings is a line meant to appeal more to European consumers (i.e. EU kids). We tend to try to release all product lines globally. Sometimes this works fine, sometimes not so much. The idea here is to create lines that appeal in a large way to each major region.

In addition, there is a metric ton of business decisions that went into making this call. I can’t/won’t get into all of them here, but you have to believe that this wasn’t a decision taken lightly or without thought. As the company works to regain its profitable status, we are listening more and more to both customers(i.e. Target, TRU, etc.) and consumers (i.e. kids and AFOLs) about what they’re interested in seeing on shelves.

Perhaps this divided strategy is a terrific idea, perhaps not. But it’s a direction we simply must take in order to see what happens. Again, I won’t argue the business thinking here, there’s simply too many issues that factor into the discussion - many of which I can’t share.

I know that some of you might be dissapointed that one line or the other is not on shelves in your local stores, but hopefully you can understand the importance of getting our feet back under us. We look forward to your help and support in this crucial year.

Jake
---
Jake McKee
Community Liaison
LEGO Community Team

and here is my response to him http://news.lugnet.com/lego/?n=3223 furthermore there was another post where more information was revealed but it vanished for some reason

Wow, are you really out of the loop, Rick. As was stated back at Brickfest 2005 in the talks with Kjeld and the rest of his ilk, as well as other websites, the Viking sets were originally intended as a European only release, but TRU pitched a fit and convinced LEGO to release the line as a TRU exclusive to North America. As Jake said in his post it could be a good idea or a bad one to split the sets up regionally, and quite obviously LEGO decided it was a bad idea and changed.

He even says in the beginning of the post the information he had was old - "Sorry for the delay in getting posting this info."

So Jake was right, but then the situation changed. It wasn't that Jake was wrong when he said what he said, the situation changed after the fact.

as it goes i know what i know,and when Tony wants to argue about me being wrong and steve right i ask you when has steve been right?and like i asked Tony are you so sure of what your rep says?willing to bet on it?

As far as Steve Witt goes, I know him personally, do you? I've spent time building with him, I've touched his bricks (well, it WAS his batman set). I've shared a meal with him on more than one occasion. I trust him, and if he says something will happen one way, I have no reason to believe otherwise.

As for you, I've known you on Bricklink, before you were banned, as well as here, and you've not changed. I have no reason to believe a word you have to say.

That said, why would I want to bet with you? If you are so poor, as you say you are, where you can't afford to save up for a single Dwarfs Mine set over some 6 month period in which it has been available, you have nothing to back up your words with. So why would I bet with you if you have nothing to offer, even if I was reasonably sure you'd keep your word?

--Tony

ok let me point out a few things here,Steve can spin it yes but not once does he say with any definition that the Dwarf's mine will return in Feb. he says he believes it will,he says hes seen it in the plans but as he will be the first to tell you things change,and change abruptly,as far as the Jake McKee thing when he posted what he did I knew weeks before hand that the set was going to be sold at retail in the US,but his post caused people to believe it wasn't and that the only way you could get the vikings was thru S&H or the LEGO stores,and when i told people they would be available at retail they didn't believe me because a LEGO "Rep" said they wouldn't.

So tell me how would you feel if you knew your information was 100% reliable?and are you sure yours is?

as far as saving up for a Dwarf's set,sorry but this year has been an exceedingly ruff year for me and i can barely keep up with bills let alone keep food in the house ,so spending money on a LEGO set no matter how much i want it is not in the cards for me.

[natelite]

holy cow...this is an intense thread

may i point out the virtue of humility? better to under estimate and over deliver than the opposite.

the building crane was a target exclusive in 2006 as well. when that sold out, lego stores carried them in 2007. even BW vs WL which was a target exclusive was carried in lego stores after 2006.

if this is the norm pattern i would more likely think that DM will be restocked after christmas in lego stores. but since i am a cautious guy, i hedged my bets by getting 4 more DM sets from target before they ran out.

now if steve would opine on the hoth set and whether it will be restocked after christmas...

shameless plug here:

if you want DM that badly, buy them at my store!

http://www.bricklink.com/store.asp?p=godfrey

[RichardAM]

shameless plug here:

if you want DM that badly, buy them at my store!

You should've posted that link a couple of days before I ran out of money!

Asterios, this seems to be nothing more than an over-developed grudge or personal issue, and one with little concrete relevance, either to the argument you're making or to actual thread itself.

Your post has completely deteriorated into an all-out attack on TLG, rather than a relevant discussion about this set or a follow-up comment to Dunechaser's original post.

If I want to hear biased attacks against both a product and company I adore, i'm pretty sure i'd go to one of the competitor's websites for simply that, and not here.

[SavaTheAggie]

as far as saving up for a Dwarf's set,sorry but this year has been an exceedingly ruff year for me and i can barely keep up with bills let alone keep food in the house ,so spending money on a LEGO set no matter how much i want it is not in the cards for me.

This year has been exceedingly rough on me as well, Rick. Except I don't post and complain about it. Instead, as I suggested you do a while ago up thread, I put my energy into other things and I was able to get my hands on a Dwarfs Mine through my friends in the LEGOverse, and in this particular case it had nothing to do with my position at Classic-Castle (happened to be a TexLUG member).

But if we're talking about rough years - my company hasn't been able to give me regular paychecks since January 2007 due to a variety of reasons which I won't elaborate publically. I've been lucky if I got one paycheck a month (normally get two), and I've had to borrow thousands of dollars from my parents, my grandparents, my friends, and my Discover card just to keep my house and food in the stomach of my wife, my 16 month old son and myself. In April of 2007, my mortgage company said 'oops' and raised my mortgage $200 a month because they 'forgot' about taxes they were supposed to pay via escrow, so I have to make up the difference. Had I been getting normal paychecks we'd just be squeaking by with this increase, but it's just forced us to borrow more. Because of my borrowing, my parents are having to dig very deep just to pay their property taxes this year so they don't lose their own house. With the exception of the Joust set, I haven't bought a single LEGO set this year unless I first had to sell either LEGO from my own collection or from profits from commissioned MOCs.

And yet few on this board even knows about it. Why? Because I've made the choice to putting my energy into constructive efforts, and it's paid off. By selling LEGO, commissions, even skipping lunches and pulling a fe favors, I was able to get the Dwarfs Mining set, build a few new MOCs and traveled to several LEGO oriented events (though I was forced to miss Brickworld). I was even able to pay a few bills, too.

Put your energy into something more constructive, Rick. You'll enjoy life more.

--Tony