Constructive Criticism of 10193

[Robin Hood]

Moving away from this slightly...um...heated, point of topic, I just want to express my feelings when I saw the set. I was also lucky enough to be there at the unveiling and boy was I surprised, and very much considered that alone worth the trip. When they first wheeled in the case, covered, and started talking about it (I don't remember a thing what was said, being busy trying to remain patient) the excitement in the air was so thick you could taste it. I think even more than the actual unveiling, the wait before hand, when we knew some cool new set was waiting for us, was exciting and mouth watering. To know that so many AFOLs are that interested in what TLC has to offer shows, to me at least, that they must be doing it right. But once they uncovered it, boy was I blown away! I love you Lego!

Dan

[timber_wolf899]

I'm also not sure how Dan could say that this hardly covers any new ground. It covers new ground for the fact that it's a village and not just one building. My question to Dan is, if this isn't good enough for you, what is?

------------
Indeed, but his petulant tone reminds me of the old master who's sour because he is no longer unsurpassed. Times change, others come and go. Dan do not mar your reputation with a lack of grace in the face of this.


EDIT: i see josh had already said wha ti wanted to say, and much better, so please excuse redundancy.

m2c

[Ye Olde Republic]

By show of hands, who here is going to buy this set to put together and leave together? I'm sure there are the collectors out there who will do just that but I'd wager that the vast majority will be buying this set for the parts and figs. Sure you can find parts cheaper on bricklink but not always and it seems these days that if one wants only the cool figs from a set, quite often it's not worth bricklinking them. To buy the nice assortment of parts found in this set a person would likely also have to make numerous purchases from multiple stores as well. Not worth it to me, I'll just go ahead and buy the set.

Trevor

[MarioDAlessio]

old_republic wrote:

By show of hands, who here is going to buy this set to put together and leave together? I'm sure there are the collectors out there who will do just that but I'd wager that the vast majority will be buying this set for the parts and figs. Sure you can find parts cheaper on bricklink but not always and it seems these days that if one wants only the cool figs from a set, quite often it's not worth bricklinking them. To buy the nice assortment of parts found in this set a person would likely also have to make numerous purchases from multiple stores as well. Not worth it to me, I'll just go ahead and buy the set.

Trevor

I intend to buy multiply copies over teh next year/s this is the only type of Lego buiding I do these days. I will keep one for display, 1 MISB and sort/modify some out.

Have any of you noticed that the blacksmith's shop and stable lack stairs? I love how they included the water wheel but of course that takes up the place of the stairs.

I don't know how to put stairs within the house itself though. If a person were to do that, he/she would have to remove one of the horse stalls. I did a count of the bricks and I figured that it would be impossible to use the "already-made" stairs and place it within the room without taking up all of the space. If you guys have a good idea on where to put the stairs I'd like to listen.

I agree their is insufficient room for a staircase, it could be that the building includes a Black Plate, Modified 6 x 8 Trap Door Frame Horizontal

http://www.bricklink.com/catalogItem.asp?P=30041

with a ladder against the wall that has been concealed by the angles of the photos that have been supplied. Somebody that has seen the set in the round may be able to confirm whether this is the case.

I note that a 6x black plate is shown above the stable in this picture.

http://www.classic-castle.com/sets/imag ... 93_010.jpg

Anyway that is how I would achieve access to the upper level given what I have seen.

Mario

Anyone able to answer this

Mario

[Patron of the lego]

whoa, this is supposed to be a happy time, why are all these sharp comments popping up? I think Dan had different meaning to his words than what is perceived.

Besides the debate, does anyone know why it is being released in January, as most sets are released in the summer.

[Ardohoth]

I dont think that there is need for arguements around here. I am making MOCs for almost 12 years now and i have to admit this is the first time in my life i see a set like this. Many of us will have the chance to experiment and i can say my opinion which might reflect many people vew around here. Almost everyone will make changes and add things to this set, or they will make total new MOCs with this set as a guide.

Personally as i have said to a previous post, i definatelly will make similar houses with deferent colors, plus it will help me to give to the overall of my houses another style. I definatelly will not let the set as it is right now.

The fact though is and please correct me if i am wrong many people around here will buy it multiple times.

[Lord Felix]

Besides the debate, does anyone know why it is being released in January, as most sets are released in the summer.

I don't know why, but I'm still happy it is being released soon! I don't want to wait all the way until summer for this masterpiece

[Old_School_Fan]

By show of hands, who here is going to buy this set to put together and leave together? I'm sure there are the collectors out there who will do just that but I'd wager that the vast majority will be buying this set for the parts and figs. Sure you can find parts cheaper on bricklink but not always and it seems these days that if one wants only the cool figs from a set, quite often it's not worth bricklinking them. To buy the nice assortment of parts found in this set a person would likely also have to make numerous purchases from multiple stores as well. Not worth it to me, I'll just go ahead and buy the set.

Trevor

*raises hand*

But don't mind me, I'm just one of those pure hearted purists. Sure I've made my own things, but I always get disappointed when I look at how much the set I've taken apart would be to buy new. Nowadays I put the set together, and leave it together. I don't have the motivation to buy sets for the pieces or gather them through bricklink. I know I cringed when I took the black guard tower stands off of the Arkham Asylum for a minifig sized Pro-Wrestling auditorium. It turned out really cool, if anyone knows about that kind of stuff, but I had to take it apart to put the pieces back with their set, I was just so sad.

It has come to the point where, in my house, I have my Lego room, but it is too full. I'm going to need to install shelves along the walls some day. For now, it's branched out into the basement. That's one of the downsides of keeping everything together.

As for this set, I cannot wait to make room for it. I usually have themes together, but I can't see how I'll fit this in. This set is just so cool it needs to have a place of prominence. But it'll have to be somewhere where people can view it from all angles, because there is no side of any of the buildings where you wouldn't want to view it.

With the Green Grocer having an interior, and now this, I'm excited to see what the future holds with more details in sets. I see Lego is really doing well with that. I always thought the fact that the Troll Artillery Wagon was pulled by a huge troll with a dangling piece of chicken to motivate it was so cool. Such a simple aspect that just changes the whole view of the set for me. Lego is really impressing me these days. Even in Classic sets there were some overlooked features that they are making up for ten fold.

[Dan]

I should have checked back here earlier as I didn't realize my posts would have set off such a firestorm or generated so much personal fury.

First just let me say that I don't hang out that much on AFOL forums and generally keep my feelings private except with my fellow builders. I love building with LEGO bricks but I don't consider myself a "fan" of their product line (i.e. their sets) other than what parts they contain. I have a very different point of view than the average AFOL some of you may find it abrasive when I speak my mind and thumb my nose at the official product line.

I also really regret that my posts were seen as some kind of sour grapes complaining or a deliberate attempt to cause a ruckus. There are obviously a lot of people here that are very appreciative of this set coming out and I shouldn't have been more considerate before starting my post out with "I hate to rain on everyone's parade..." My post was made with a feeling of gut-level disappointment after seeing the actual model for which I had been hearing so much hype about. What I was expecting to be a Lexus turned out to be a Yugo. And we still have to buy a $100 set to get two female minifigs. OK, shut up Dan, at least they make female minifigs now.

Anyway, my point here is to apologize for coming across like an arrogant jerk and not thinking before opening my big fat opinionated mouth. Where I'm coming from is a very different perspective from most AFOLs and some of my comments were glib and inappropriate for this particular community. I'm sorry.

-Dan

[wunztwice]

Apology most certainly accepted Dan! I was considering a post much akin to Josh's, and to see your quick and very nice reply was a relief.

As to the rest of my thoughts on the subject of this set, and to move this thread back in the direction it's meant to be in, I think Dan (the other one) has summed up my thoughts so concisely and accurately I'll quote him below:

Moving away from this slightly...um...heated, point of topic, I just want to express my feelings when I saw the set. I was also lucky enough to be there at the unveiling and boy was I surprised, and very much considered that alone worth the trip. When they first wheeled in the case, covered, and started talking about it (I don't remember a thing what was said, being busy trying to remain patient) the excitement in the air was so thick you could taste it. I think even more than the actual unveiling, the wait before hand, when we knew some cool new set was waiting for us, was exciting and mouth watering. To know that so many AFOLs are that interested in what TLC has to offer shows, to me at least, that they must be doing it right. But once they uncovered it, boy was I blown away! I love you Lego!

Dan

One place where we do differ is that I do remember one thing that was said while they were preparing to unveil the set. Basically it went something like this: "We are very proud of this set, and we think you will be too..." Well, I am!!!

[LordZode]

I should have checked back here earlier as I didn't realize my posts would have set off such a firestorm or generated so much personal fury.

First just let me say that I don't hang out that much on AFOL forums and generally keep my feelings private except with my fellow builders. I love building with LEGO bricks but I don't consider myself a "fan" of their product line (i.e. their sets) other than what parts they contain. I have a very different point of view than the average AFOL some of you may find it abrasive when I speak my mind and thumb my nose at the official product line.

I also really regret that my posts were seen as some kind of sour grapes complaining or a deliberate attempt to cause a ruckus. There are obviously a lot of people here that are very appreciative of this set coming out and I shouldn't have been more considerate before starting my post out with "I hate to rain on everyone's parade..." My post was made with a feeling of gut-level disappointment after seeing the actual model for which I had been hearing so much hype about. What I was expecting to be a Lexus turned out to be a Yugo. And we still have to buy a $100 set to get two female minifigs. OK, shut up Dan, at least they make female minifigs now.

Anyway, my point here is to apologize for coming across like an arrogant jerk and not thinking before opening my big fat opinionated mouth. Where I'm coming from is a very different perspective from most AFOLs and some of my comments were glib and inappropriate for this particular community. I'm sorry.

-Dan

It's okay Dan, having browsed your website it seems as if you come from a very specific and unique perspective.

Life long fan of the LEGO Brick; but not of the LEGO company.

You love building with their product and pieces, just not the sets they release.

And you have even tried to complete against LEGO by selling kits of questionable themes such as Nazi Tanks that would obviously never see the light of day as a childrens toy.

I can't way that I know what happened after LEGO released your Blacksmith kit, but we all know they didn't release more.

The other disparaging remarks made on your website as LEGO sets being only a "hollow shell" compared to your creations puzzles me. You seem to bite the hand that feeds you, insulting the integrity of the company by saying their product lacks quality compared to YOUR interpretation of their product - and then disparage those who do appreciate the brilliant new LEGO sets and I happen to think they rival or surpass those of my childhood.

And as has been said before, you did not invent Tudor, and like it or not, if you never touched a LEGO brick in your life we would still be getting the amazing Medieval Market Square.

[Ye Olde Republic]

The problem with opinions are that they really only matter to one person.
I don't know if your reaction was met with fury, Dan, so much as it was met with confusion. The vast majority of members are excited by this and your thoughts, not being as positive as most was cause for a red flag. I think a lot of people feel heartened by this set because even thought it's a LEGO direct set, Castle Village will reach a lot of new people. There are a lot of 'soccer moms' who do their shopping online and this set will reach a young audience because of it. Kids will put it on their lists to Santa Claus and parents and grandparents will buy it.

Set collectors are cool, they're part of the market as well. Perhaps a larger part than 'builders'.

Trevor

btw, my copy of Blacksmith Shop stands proudly (nearly) intact on my Castle shelf. Right beside my BFF, '84 Blacksmith, King's castle, guarded inn and armour shop (of which I'm only missing the flag).

[Dan]

And you have even tried to complete against LEGO by selling kits of questionable themes such as Nazi Tanks that would obviously never see the light of day as a childrens toy.

Whew.... This discussion should probably be moved to another thread because it is falling into a realm off the topic at hand. But, since it is brought up I think I should be able to defend myself. In response to this sentence, I have to say that I never set out to compete with LEGO and making tanks kits was only made in response to requests for copies of models in pictures I had posted. They turned out to be quite popular and I continued to make more as I received requests for different models. The German tanks of WW2 happen to be legendary machines and it would be a serious historical oversight to exclude them. To say I intentionally went out of my way to make Nazi tanks is totally inaccurate. My name is Daniel Aaron Siskind and you can't get much more Jewish then that.

I can't way that I know what happened after LEGO released your Blacksmith kit, but we all know they didn't release more.

What are you implying by this statement? My guess as to why they didn't do more MOC sets is that it is much more expensive for them license a model then it is to design it "in house." There were several other licensed sets after mine came out, but the licenses were worked in a different way so the designers didn't get credit. This is probably cheaper for them to do and there is no implied endorsement for that individuals' extra-caricular activities. I'm sure there are people in the company that are embarrassed about a Lego / Dan Siskind partnership (the head of Legoland California made me quite aware of this), but the Lego Direct folks were very enthusiastic. I also very publicly stated on Lugnet that I would rather see other designers honored with an MOC set than have any more of mine done.

The other disparaging remarks made on your website as LEGO sets being only a "hollow shell" compared to your creations puzzles me. You seem to bite the hand that feeds you, insulting the integrity of the company by saying their product lacks quality compared to YOUR interpretation of their product - and then disparage those who do appreciate the brilliant new LEGO sets and I happen to think they rival or surpass those of my childhood.

I don't know where on my site you pulled that from, but considering 90% of it was written before any of the 1xxxx sets existed it rings pretty true to me. I'm not here to grab credit for anything, BUT I strongly feel that it is BECAUSE of the Lugnet, Bricklink, the early LTC's and LUGs, The Guild of Bricksmiths and even Brickmania that LEGO is responding to us now. Ten years ago all we had was pure crap and the ONLY reason it go better is because we were vocal and demanded attention. LEGO is not making nice sets like this one out of the goodness of their hearts, it is because we demanded better. And I think the envelope should be continually pushed and constantly improved upon. I'm sure I'm up there around the 98th or 99th percentile of total dollar value LEGO consumers and I think I have earned some kind of right to be vocal about what I do and don't like about the company's products. If I didn't care I wouldn't say anything.

And as has been said before, you did not invent Tudor, and like it or not, if you never touched a LEGO brick in your life we would still be getting the amazing Medieval Market Square.

I never said I invented it, but I sure brought a whole lot of attention to a style of building that people were not familiar with. My Blacksmith shop is nothing more than a castle-theme rip off of the 1978 classic Townhouse set #560 with a few modifications stolen from the back of Idea Book #6000. I did nothing more than bring back the techniques I learned as a kid and shared it with people who had no knowledge of it. I didn't invent anything new, but reintroduced a lot of lost techniques and they have since taken hold. When my Blacksmith shop was introduced as an official set there were a lot of people that were angry that it was out of scale with the rest of the official castle line. I think it says a lot about how opinions have since evolved so that similarly designed sets are being embraced with gusto.

[Dan]

I don't know if your reaction was met with fury, Dan, so much as it was met with confusion.

Trust me, it generated some hate mail!

[Count Blacktron]

Look everybody, Dan is the man and LEGO is another thing entirely. What POINT is there to drag either through the mud in this case??? IMHO this topic is about a FABULOUS LEGO set coming out in 2009; a set so anticipated that it is about time it was done.

Dan, your Blacksmith Shop, a la LEGO's version, occupies a space in my 6 year old daughter's collection, mine and a vast parts horde. That same daughter also has a variety of other Castle themed LEGO sets, but she wanted Dan's for her little village. Being able to follow quality instructions to build an affordable set of such quality design is a dream for both her and I. Now with this new set coming up, we BOTH will not only add them to our collections, but we will display them SIDE BY SIDE.

I understand what he is saying that this is a move that should have followed TLG's purchase of his design and it is coming 6 years late, but it is a step none the less. I agree with Dan's trepidation of whether or not TLG will see the reaction, sales numbers and purpose to follow upon this new set more closely with a true assortment of medieval life styled sets or if it is a one off.

Dan is a creative person who designed his own sets from pure imagination. Due to his business ability to get things done he made his designs available to AFOLs (who numbered MANY) for purchase like commissioned art, and I have no doubt that LEGO recognized that as well. I fully feel his frustration that LEGO understands the principles of a better design like he gave them and the cost/benefits and yet they chose to go a different road year after year right off into Knights Kingdom 2. I have felt that for years ALL LEGO sets are parts for my own MOCs; or perhaps I should call them "My Better Creations" (MBCs).

Dan is not an attacking man, and none of you should be either. Give a brother some respect and allow an occasional opinion to surface. Sure I'm gushing all over the new Medieval Village Market, but that does not mean that LEGO (or TLG) is perfect and cannot be criticized.

Keep an open mind and dialog please.