The Decline of Lego Castle?

[H3LLB0Y3]

What KK2 could have been?
http://www.mikerayhawk.com/castle.htm
http://www.mikerayhawk.com/morcia.htm
Man...if only some of those designs had been realized in actual sets...

[Zilberfrid]

I think that lego castle started great then got even better with the lego land castle theme but after that it started to decline(the fright knights had the all time worst castle set http://guide.lugnet.com/set/?q=2848_1&v=z ) and stayed down with only a few good themes till the 2007 crown knights which got better with the orks and dwarfs but is now starting to go down again with kingdoms.

.P.S ORKS RULE!

I wholeheartedly disagree with kindoms being anything resembling a decline from castle. I don't really hate fantasy items, but the mainstay of castle,for me, is a semblance of medieval life, this series makes an effort to do that. I'd even hazard to say that, if you include the mmv in this series, it looks to be one of the most promising series in Lego castle history.

[lord_of_orks]

I think that lego castle started great then got even better with the lego land castle theme but after that it started to decline(the fright knights had the all time worst castle set http://guide.lugnet.com/set/?q=2848_1&v=z ) and stayed down with only a few good themes till the 2007 crown knights which got better with the orks and dwarfs but is now starting to go down again with kingdoms.

.P.S ORKS RULE!

I wholeheartedly disagree with kindoms being anything resembling a decline from castle. I don't really hate fantasy items, but the mainstay of castle,for me, is a semblance of medieval life, this series makes an effort to do that. I'd even hazard to say that, if you include the mmv in this series, it looks to be one of the most promising series in Lego castle history.

kingdoms it self is a ok theme. However if it ends in less than a year or 2 this could start a decline. last time it was started by themes coming going with up to two a year when this happens it is the designers stop putting effort into the sets. there is no prof that this will happen but history is likely to repeat it self.

[Bruce N H]

Hey,

I have to agree with Hikaro Takayama in defense of the Fright Knights figs. Ignoring the silly bat-wing helm and, of course, willa, what do we have?

A bunch of generically useful torsos, that's what. Also (ignoring the bat helm, again), useful helms:

Also generically useful weapons (sword, spear, great sword, halberd, crossbow, quiver) and accessories and other parts (wheels, chests, old style dragons, burps, etc).

Yeah, Willa and the bat-wing helm were silly, and the set designs were pretty bad, but I almost never build the official set design more than once anyway before absorbing the bricks into my collection, so who cares. Any theme that gives me generically useful torsos and lots of bricks, plates, slopes and accessories, is alright by me.

Bruce

[Zilberfrid]

kingdoms it self is a ok theme. However if it ends in less than a year or 2 this could start a decline. last time it was started by themes coming going with up to two a year when this happens it is the designers stop putting effort into the sets. there is no prof that this will happen but history is likely to repeat it self.

It still would have us left with a mill, a blacksmith, quite a few smaller sets, an ok castle and tower for the lions, two towers for the dragons, a nice starter set (5929), two polybags (though ill distributed), probably two advent calendars (very nice to fill out your figs), and very nice barding. If only the lion battle pack was worth buying...

Even if kingdoms would not last, for the type of builder I am it is a very good line. Seeing the links you provided, I guess you are a different builder, so your choices would undoubtedly be different.

Looking at the parts supplied with the fright knights, you might be able to state that this was made for MOC's, as the parts themselves aren't that bad, but it does not seem to have a coherent design idea.

[Dravin Darklore]

Kingdoms isnt really ending just as a reference. I just did a store set to add in the new wave today. Normally 2 years is the shelf life of set, not a series. They add to a good series that sells, not kill it off completly.

[Count Blacktron]

It's beginning to look to me as if Kingdoms is the best full retail line LEGO has offered since the 1980s. The 2007-2009 Castle line was great, but it was far too focused upon conflict and the assortment designed to flesh out the village aspects never made it to general retail here in the USA. Kingdoms however has gotten to all the appropriate shops with knights, peasants, lords, ladies and livestock. What more could a Castle-head want? And with all the other themes tying together with a medieval/fantasy theme so well right now, ACK!, the budget strains more than it did in the past. Not in decline, not at all.

[Lioness]

Wow, I'm amazed at how many people here share my thoughts on the matter
and am not sure if I have something to add.

The 1984-1992 era is a true obsession of mine. Those sets are things of beauty and unexplainable attraction.
I guess I'm very subjective since these are from my childhood.
In my mind the dragon knights in 1993 marked the graduate decline of the castle line which then plummeted in 1997.

At present time, with the fantasy era and the kingdoms, the things are also looking good for the future.

[gormadoc1]

I think we can all agree that with the introduction of he Kingdoms line, things are now looking up for the Castle theme.

[JPinoy]

What KK2 could have been?
http://www.mikerayhawk.com/castle.htm
http://www.mikerayhawk.com/morcia.htm
Man...if only some of those designs had been realized in actual sets...

The Guardian appears to have been some sort of Golden Knight, which did not get realized until Fantasy Era Castle...

What bugged me about the Knights Kingdom II line is that each of the Knights were supposed to be from a Castle, yet we never saw sets of these other castles. KKII had the potential to have at least 7 different Castles, each belonging to the 4 Knights respectively, Vladek, and King Mathais...

[medicus]

Wow, I'm amazed at how many people here share my thoughts on the matter
and am not sure if I have something to add.

The 1984-1992 era is a true obsession of mine. Those sets are things of beauty and unexplainable attraction.
I guess I'm very subjective since these are from my childhood.
In my mind the dragon knights in 1993 marked the graduate decline of the castle line which then plummeted in 1997.

At present time, with the fantasy era and the kingdoms, the things are also looking good for the future.

dito. 1984-1992 is the golden age.

I was born in 1984 and received my first castle (black monarchs castle) in 1989 when I was 5. My last castle I wished for and got was 1992 the Black Knights Castle. As a 6 year old I always craved for the castle sets from 1984-1988 but I couldn't get them because I was "too late" and they were not in stores anymore...

[krzyzak]

Kingdoms is awesome! I mean cool buildings and guys.Castle is still going strong.

[Lobberuno]

About the castle decline, I think it always begin when strange sets are introduced in the Castle line or when TLG re-use exclusive pieces from other factions. Although,this is not for all pieces, there are many examples:

1. Dragon Masters Heraldry was re-used from Black Knights, only changed in colors, but well used for our alternative histories as elite knights.
2. That helmet released with the Dragon Masters. It's very cool!
3. KK1 Lion Pillars. Has been used for KK1, KK2, Castle 2007 and now with Lion Knights.
4. The Halberd released with the Dragon Masters. Also, it's very cool
5. Classic Castle Helmets (those with visor and the others with bullet-shape ones).

Maybe the best way that Lego can do it for never decline the Castle line sales is by making sets inspired on those ones that were very popular (and now is doing this since Lego Castle 2007). This, as I said, is applied in Lego city every time that new sets are released: Boats, police chase, trucks, etc.

Yes is truth, doing the same is boring, but TLG can use many elements to do this franchise with quality or even much better than now. Are many medieval accesories not "legolized" yet and Lego could be inspired in the most popular series without purchasing licenses, such as:

1. Age of empires II series: Based on medieval stories and contains many elements of this era.
2. TV and movies.
3. Medieval stories and phantasy stories, like Robin Hood (Forestmen used this twice).
4. Lord of the rings.
5. Lego Golden Age and Classic Castle sets.

No matter in what time we live, Castle always is going to be Castle (in other words, related to medieval and so).

UPDATE!:
1.

I think it always begin when strange sets are introduced in the Castle line or when TLG re-use exclusive pieces from other factions.

Or when uses special parts from others themes (or pieces that we can identify in).

2.

Maybe the best way that Lego can do it for never decline the Castle line sales is by making sets inspired on those ones that were very popular

Lego knows the formula for Lego city (this is:) everybody would like to build a City, but what about to build a Castle and its village, isn't really funny for all?

3.

Yes is truth, doing the same is boring, but TLG can use many elements to do this franchise with quality or even much better than now. Are many medieval accesories not "legolized" yet and Lego could be inspired in the most popular series without purchasing licenses, such as:

There many medieval weapons not created by lego yet, but also Lego needs to promote imagination, that's the castle formula, and could be inspired by literature, movies, TV series or legends... I think is not necessary to buy licenses.

[Bluesecrets]

Yes is truth, doing the same is boring, but TLG can use many elements to do this franchise with quality or even much better than now. Are many medieval accesories not "legolized" yet and TLG can be inspired in the most popular series without purchasing licenses, such as:

1. Age of empires II series: Basedon medieval stories and contains many elements of this era.
2. TV and movies.
3. Medieval stories and phantasy stories.
4. Lord of the rings.
5. Lego Golden Age and Classic Castle.

No matter in what time we live, Castle always is going to be Castle (in other words, related to medieval and so).

I am going to chime in here with: I really really REALLY hope we NEVER get a castle license ever. While PoP did my desert building castle loving, tan obsessed heart some good..its a license which means less parts, more cost and fleshies (blech).

Now as far as remaking sets that they have done before. The castle line has a history of a 3 year span for a line. Then it does a new cycle. Their target audience, is NOT us. We are approximately 10% of the sales TLG gets. With that in mind..the kids in the target range grow up in those three years. They need the repeats. Ever look at the city line? Its the same old same old, over and over and over..and it STILL makes much money.

Now for this topic..if I was to name a decline in castle..that seems to be a personal opinion by each person. Take me for example, I disliked KK2 and I am not into the Fantasy line. Where as a TON of people around her love the fantasy line and there are some who like the KK2 line. To each their own..enjoy what you enjoy.

[SEdmison]

Now for this topic..if I was to name a decline in castle..that seems to be a personal opinion by each person. Take me for example, I disliked KK2 and I am not into the Fantasy line. Where as a TON of people around her love the fantasy line and there are some who like the KK2 line. To each their own..enjoy what you enjoy.

I couldn't agree more. (I happen to be among the Lord of the Rings/D&D fans who loved the Fantasy line, but I realize why some folks didn't like it.)

I'm just happy that LEGO continues to invest in castle, and that some of the stuff they're releasing now (like the joust set) really raises the bar in terms of artistry and what I perceive to be attention to detail in simulating architecture in brick. There will always be limits to how realistic something can be when scaled way, way down (and scaled to fit figures that are themselves eccentrically proportioned), but that set in particular has real visual pop even from a distance, plus what looks like great playability for kids. That's the kind of win-win balance that I'd like to see more of: Kids win with sets that are fun to play, adult fans who build the set to the directions win with a cool finished product, adult fans who just want the parts for their own creations win with sets that provide cool and useful parts, and LEGO wins by having us buying the sets like hotcakes.