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KK2: Realistic?

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KK2: Realistic?

Postby LEGOFREAK » Sat Jul 31, 2004 6:24 pm

Recently I have been reading up on the middle ages, and was reading about evolution of armor, and I came across a couple paragraphs that maybe our resident historians could elaborate on.
It said that plate armor was commonly painted, and our conception knights all in plain steel is wrong. The article said that the reason we have this conception is because collectors liked to display them without the paint, to give them a grimmer look. It goes on to say that there was mention of a mercenary company that earned the nickname the "white company" for its lack of paint.
If this is the case then there isn't any reason why the KK2 line would not be good for realism...
well, not the helms. ;)
Any thoughts?
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Postby doctorsparkles » Sat Jul 31, 2004 6:36 pm

There was also a way to give steel that barbie blue hue without painting it. I can't remember how it was done, but it had something to do with the amount of heat or how it was applied to the steel. Not only did the process give a very desirable sky-blue color, but I believe that it protected against rust.
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Postby Lord Resta » Sat Jul 31, 2004 6:36 pm

Thanks for that.


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Postby Emperor James » Sat Jul 31, 2004 6:39 pm

The purple helmet is quite realistic
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Postby architect » Sat Jul 31, 2004 6:44 pm

I also knew that alot of armor was painted. I do like some of the new breastplates. However, some colors that were chosen wouldnt have been my first choice. We should have white, blue, yellow, etc armor before harder to find colors. Old visors in new colors would also have been nice.

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Postby Jojo » Sat Jul 31, 2004 6:52 pm

Hello!


Do any originally mediaeval paintings or pictured carpets etc. show knights with painted armour?

There is a famous manuscript from the 14th century that shows noble bards of minne songs (love songs, fin d'amor) in their habit and with their coats of arms. It's the Codex Manesse that can be seen here (Link: http://digi.ub.uni-heidelberg.de/sammlu ... d=PAGE0007 ) It's in German, you can turn the pages by clicking the links under "> Inhalt" at the left.

The knights shown there mostly are wearing tunics over their coats of chain mail, there's hardly any armour (didn't check all pages there). However, painted armour is not shown :-)


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Postby David Girard » Sun Aug 01, 2004 12:04 pm

I'm really sure that KK2 are not realistic.

The thing about painting armor is not the same thing. Knights painted their armor but not plain color. They put drawing on their armor, but they didn't paint all the armor. I know they painted cross sometimes, but I don't know much about this subject.

Also the shield design, the sword, the helmets are not realistic at all. The castle design are not too.

I would like it to be realistic but I'm sorry, realism is not here in KK2. It's fantasy. :?
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Postby Dragon Master » Sun Aug 01, 2004 3:27 pm

Knights painted their armor: Agreed.

Knights painted every piece of their armor and clothing one bright color: Show me some proof.

I'm willing to bet that you would have never found a knight so colorful in the middle ages.

Black was the most common color I think, but the black knight's helm is very fake.

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Postby doctorsparkles » Sun Aug 01, 2004 4:28 pm

Dragon Master wrote:Knights painted their armor: Agreed.

Knights painted every piece of their armor and clothing one bright color: Show me some proof.

I'm willing to bet that you would have never found a knight so colorful in the middle ages.

Black was the most common color I think, but the black knight's helm is very fake.

DM


Nobody is trying to say that KK2 portrays history as it should be portrayed, we're just saying that the figs (if you mix and match the pieces from the KK2 knights and older figs) can be applied to historical models.
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Postby Emperor James » Sun Aug 01, 2004 7:19 pm

Whether or not knights painted their armor (and they did some) I know that many afols are going to :wink:
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Postby Lord Resta » Sun Aug 01, 2004 7:37 pm

lol!
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Re: KK2: Realistic?

Postby TwoTonic Knight » Sun Aug 01, 2004 8:56 pm

LEGOFREAK wrote:Recently I have been reading up on the middle ages, and was reading about evolution of armor, and I came across a couple paragraphs that maybe our resident historians could elaborate on.
It said that plate armor was commonly painted, and our conception knights all in plain steel is wrong. The article said that the reason we have this conception is because collectors liked to display them without the paint, to give them a grimmer look. It goes on to say that there was mention of a mercenary company that earned the nickname the "white company" for its lack of paint.
If this is the case then there isn't any reason why the KK2 line would not be good for realism...
well, not the helms. ;)
Any thoughts?


"White armor" usually refers to unpainted plate armor that hasn't been tempered to a specific color. I have read many times about armor being painted and that black (as in every piece of the set was painted black) was the favorite, but whether anyone ever painted all his armor some really bright color I can't confirm or deny. I do know that some knights painted their heraldic symbol on their helmets, and certainly their breastplates, but that's not quite the same thing.
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Postby doctorsparkles » Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:37 pm

Here's something I found about coloring armor on metmuseum.com.
Heating metal produces a coloration of the surface, which changes from yellow to purple to deep blue as the heat increases. When taken out of the fire at a particular temperature, the metal retains this color. Considerable skill is required to achieve a consistent and even heat-patination of large areas (e.g., a breastplate) or groups of objects (e.g., a complete armor, 32.130.6). The favored color for armor, edged weapons, and firearm barrels was a deep blue, in a process is referred to as ""bluing."" A range of colors could also be produced chemically, using a variety of different recipes, such as a rich brown color that was popular on firearm barrels in the late eighteenth and nineteenth century. Besides being attractive, patination and painting also inhibit rust on metal surfaces.

In Europe, the technique of decorating arms and armor with paint was certainly known in antiquity, although today no surviving objects appear to date from before the thirteenth century. It is more difficult to establish when textile coverings and heat-patination first appeared. Scabbards from swords and daggers are likely to have been covered in fabrics, colored leathers, or fur as early as Egyptian times, if not earlier. The first examples of heat-patination seem to appear during the fifteenth century, but the practice may well be much older.


I've seen light blue and black armor before, and apparently the purple can be created in the same fashion as the blue. I don't see green and red as out of the question, even without paint, though they aren't mentioned on the site.
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Postby Jojo » Sun Aug 01, 2004 10:39 pm

Hello!


What kind of paint was used?


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Postby LEGOFREAK » Mon Aug 02, 2004 4:26 pm

On an off-topic side note, my son and I finally got our first KK2 set, the little on with the good guy and bad guy.
Seconds after opening, both guys were modified. ON the purple guy I swapped out the purple torso and put a light gray one, and changed visors to a light gray pointed one, and changed his head too. Further I gave him a mace from the little armory (thanks L.A.!), and until I can print a new shield he is using a round buckler.
Alex changed heads on his guy, is using a shield sable a saltire gules, and is using the longsword from little armory. He also added a cape.
KK2 may not be realistic, (neither am I :wink: ) but they sure are great for parts.
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