The Lands of Classic Castle Lore Submission Thread.

[Hayden.]

Ah, confused topics...

[wobnam]

I don't have any strong feelings on what the ancient history of the land is, so I'll leave that to others, but I think that no matter what story we go with we need to address the issue of magic properly.

I know many of us are excited about magic and other fantasy elements, but we shouldn't exclude those who want a mostly medieval world instead of a fantasy one. This is why we created the "magic island".

To make the story beliveable, we need to come up with a good reason why there is virtually no magic on the mainland. In my opinion, the fact that it is simply forbidden by the king or something like that is a bit unrealistic (and not very creative); magic is a very powerfull weapon, and in a tough world like this - if it is possible - someone will use it for their own cause, and then we have "magic anarchy" because if your enemy has a huge weapon, you want one of your own and so on.

Here's what I've come up with:

1) Performing magic requires a certain mystic "power" or "force" only found on the magic island. Some kinds can be used on the mainland, but it's less effective and you'd have to use a "vessel" for the power and/or go back to the magic island to "fill up".

2) Magic and magical creatures are farily new in Roawia. Magic arrived from distant lands not very long ago, so the main population is unfamiliar with it and fear it. The people in power see it as a threat, and works against it any way they can.

3) Few people are able to use magic; magic is a gift (or curse). Not everyone can feel and wield the "magic power" even when they are on the magic island. Even if you have the gift, it is difficult to learn to master it.

4) Whoever rules magic island uses magic to stop any invasion from the other factions, but cannot invade the mainland and take over as their magic has little or no effect there.

I think this will set up a world where really amazing magic can exist but at the same time give a very plausible explanation for why it is not used everywhere. It also gives the magicians in the Outlaw faction a sense of unity and belonging if we want that.

What do you think?

[Owen S.]

I like 2, 3, and 4. Especially 4. It could lead to some interesting battles and such.

[Azaghal]

Another idea might be that magic is something that was there once, but went away, and is now in revival:

"Generations ago, these lands were discovered by four adventuresome friends out on a long sea voyage. With families and followers they returned to settle the new territory, but could not agree on where to settle, and which of them would be in charge.

Eventually, they settled on a compromise: Three of the friends would settle in the places of their own desires – grim Gar chose the far north, a land of mountain and snow; Loreese the Horsewoman took the south, where her beloved beasts could run as they willed, and proud Lenfald the woodlands that separated the two.

The fourth friend, noble Roawin, they chose to be king over them all, as well as the source for the name of their new home. As King Roawin had no children, it was decided that when the time came the three families would come together and choose the new king (or queen, though such has not yet happened in the history of Roawia) from amongst them.

Now as the current king grows old and sickly, the many houses and clans descended from those original families once again plot and maneuver that the new King may be one of their choosing. Adding to the turmoil, rumors swirl that adventurers in the east (where the bandits and outlaws that swear no allegiance to the Roawian Throne are thickest) have uncovered evidence of strange magics and stranger creatures that once ruled the land, and may yet lurk in the shadows, ready to make a comeback . . . "

(As an aside, how is "Roawia" supposed to be pronounced?)

[koffiemoc]

I understand your need to address magic. And I agree that it could give the magicians/the outlaw faction a sense of unity.

Idea number one is a good one I think. Instead of the 'vessel' thing (or in addition to it) one could say that sources of magic are abundant on the mystic isle, but very rarely found elsewhere, though not completely absent.

The third idea seams very logical and reasonable to me. About idea four I don't have a special opinion, as my mind refuses so far to think about invasions and defenses. It is focused 100% on travelling Roawia, meeting Roawians, creating and learning.

I've got problems with your second idea. Magic tends to be old instead of new, in any lore. The background stories that have been entered in the lore topic are all the same on this point. I'd say it's plausible that magic is not only disliked and forbidden, practitioners of magic have been hunted down and their population is badly diminished. That also leaves only a small amount of pupils magic can be taught to, and that have a certain talent by birth. What's more, 'members' of the Outlaw faction who live on the main continent are scattered and divided in unrelated small groups. That makes it a lot harder to spread, teach and use magic.

With magic being new, it would not be just a dangerous threat, but also an attractive one. The mighty, and the not-so-mighty-but-overambitious types would see it as a possible means to overpower their enemies. The more when they are unaware of the risks that using magic might involve.

I think a combination of ideas 1, 3, the witch-huntings in the past, and the bad, dark name magic has, are almost a guarantee that it won't be used frequently or as a main trait in our background stories or mocs, except for those who build something located on the mystic isle, belonging to the outlaw faction.

[wobnam]

Idea number one is really the main thing in my previous post. I imagine this power as a sort of "field" radiating from (somewhere on) the island that you have to be inside in order to use magic - but if you have, for example, a rock from the island (or place on the island that the power comes from, like a mountain?), a small amount of force will linger in this rock for a while even after you take it out of the field, and you can "tap into" the power in the rock and use it for magic. Or, if you yourself have been in the field for a while, the force will also stay with you for a while.

(We can possibly set up other small areas that have a similar force on the mainland, but I think that is something to consider in the future.)

As for number two, you have some good points there koffiemoc, and I'm totally okay with your way.

Number four is mostly a consequence of number one. If the mainland factions really hate magic, it would make sense that they try to destroy the magicians on the island. It also makes sense that the magicians might want to attack the mainland factions, if for no other reason than to get rid of the threat they represent. I think the "radiating force" idea solves this as it makes the magicians much more powerful while on the island, but the regular armies of the mainland factions more powerful on the mainland, basically forcing a standing stalemate.

[skaforhire]

I think I solvedthe problem of magic pretty well in my lore post (albeit long.)

Brief Summary:

A magic user rose up and destroyed the king. His descendents went on campaign against all magic users, killing as many as they could find. They relied on an anti-magic mineral substance that they could mold into weapons and armor by combining it with steal and iron. When this substance(I called it Advantium) has magic used against it, it seems to "drink it up" or dampens the effects significantly. IE: If a mage cast a fireball at a person wearing this armor, it would seem to be sucked into the armor, leaving the wearer untouched. They used this tool, and spread it throughout the continent, so hundreds of years later, the people of the continent were naturally still using it in their metal works - even if they forgot why they were doing so. The initial crusade against magic didn't really make it all that far into the mystic isle, so this is where Magic was left to grow.

Magic in the main continent was almost snuffed out, but natural magic users found their way untrained into the arcane arts. Meanwhile, some mages made their way over to the continent. Still, since most people on the continent had access to this metal magic has a hard time effecting the people of the continent directly. Lessened power, combined with anti-magic laws on the books of many cities, towns, and hamlets make wizardry on the continent incredibly tough.

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As for mythical creatures, it seems that there are already a bunch of people planning on using them and joining the normal factions... So That is a whole other can of worms.

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Also, even though I love the creativity of the vessel type of magic, I think that limits the way people interpret magic itself. It says that this is the only way one can be a mage / use magic / involve oneself with the arcane, which may put off people. (Not me, I am playing an anti-magic faction!!! haha)

[wobnam]

I like your solution skaforhire, but I think it might be a bit too complex to easily limit magic the way we want it to. For instance, what's stopping the main factions from arming themselves with this metal and invading the magic island? And I can think of many ways to use magic that wouldn't be stopped by anti-magic armor..

[skaforhire]

I like your solution skaforhire, but I think it might be a bit too complex to easily limit magic the way we want it to. For instance, what's stopping the main factions from arming themselves with this metal and invading the magic island? And I can think of many ways to use magic that wouldn't be stopped by anti-magic armor..

Well that sucked... for some reason right as I had written out all my thoughts the site reloaded on me... lets see if I can remember it all.

The answer to the first question - in more brief - Why hasn't one of the main factions wiped out the other two, or conquered the whole continent yet? I suppose it is because no one has the strength to do so.

My idea about the element that prevents magic, is not an element that is totally immune. IT would also have to be expensive in pure forms, or even rare. Additionally, I left out the ability to protect against indirect magic, because I thought that would be a good weakness. In addition, it helps explain why large navies have not crossed the sea and taken the isle - because they can whip up some powerful waves or something.

I think the problem is geography. In a world where we have separated magic and non magic by extreme geography, it really is hard to find a solution. In a weapon against magicians scenario, we weaken the magic isle. In a magic doesn't exist outside of the magic isle, we weaken the magic user. I understand some people do not want magic at all. But, those people are never going to be fully satisfied because they are building in a world that magic actually exists. They will be building non-magic MOCs that will compete against MOCs with magic in them. It is kind of like sticking everyone with magic on an island and saying "ok build there, but you really have limited interaction with the rest of this world." So I think this problem is going to be much harder to come to a clear answer in the lore. Although a few have already said that they think the idea is too simple, the Merlin TV show idea is probably the easiest solution. Magic is heavily outlawed, and those who use it are put to death. This is maintained by the King or Queen. Perhaps that is why they are so weak when dealing with the provinces, because they expend their whole focus on getting rid of mages far and wide. Meanwhile the house of nobles rules the political everyday life. Squabbling between one another for more territory and power for their respective province.

[mencot]

this magic thing still is a backghost that comes an haunts this project . Wobnam you have some good ideas but like skaforhire said in his last post the best and easiest way to do it is that the rulers hate it and fear it for some reason, so that it is banned in the law and all who practice magic could be sentence to exil or death. This something that has happened in ancient times and as we all know in medieval times.

[richardanthonyc]

I say lets make Magic a force shunned by most out of superstition and best left to the isle of magic where they embrace the powers that mother earth has given them

[wobnam]

The answer to the first question - in more brief - Why hasn't one of the main factions wiped out the other two, or conquered the whole continent yet? I suppose it is because no one has the strength to do so.

I asked why Garheim, Lenfald and/or Loreos hasn't defeated the people on the magic island. If they hate/fear magic so much, wiping out the magicians is a logical move from them. A possible solution is of course that the magicians are too powerful, but if they are powerful enough to easily defend, they should be powerful enough to attack too. So why don't they?

In a weapon against magicians scenario, we weaken the magic isle. In a magic doesn't exist outside of the magic isle, we weaken the magic user.

Which is where the "magic force" idea has its strength: It offers a plausible explanation for why the magicians are so much stronger on the magic island but so much weaker on the mainland.

It also offers a natural reason for how magic can be used on the mainland, just to a smaller degree than on the magic island. How much magic you are able to "carry with you" can depend on how strong a magician you are. Advanced magic users could perhaps carry their magic force with them for months?

I'm not saying yours is a bad idea skaforhire, I really like it and think we can include it - I just think the "magic power is strong on the island" idea is a more elegant solution to our main issue; explaining why there is so much magic on the island and so little on the mainland in a more fundamental way.

I understand some people do not want magic at all. But, those people are never going to be fully satisfied because they are building in a world that magic actually exists.

Just like someone who wants a complete fantasy world isn't going to be fully satisfied with one where magic is limited. Noone is going to get exactly the world they want, but we have to try to create something everyone can live with and find their place to build in.

[skaforhire]

I asked why Garheim, Lenfald and/or Loreos hasn't defeated the people on the magic island. If they hate/fear magic so much, wiping out the magicians is a logical move from them. A possible solution is of course that the magicians are too powerful, but if they are powerful enough to easily defend, they should be powerful enough to attack too. So why don't they?



It also offers a natural reason for how magic can be used on the mainland, just to a smaller degree than on the magic island. How much magic you are able to "carry with you" can depend on how strong a magician you are. Advanced magic users could perhaps carry their magic force with them for months?

I'm not saying yours is a bad idea skaforhire, I really like it and think we can include it - I just think the "magic power is strong on the island" idea is a more elegant solution to our main issue; explaining why there is so much magic on the island and so little on the mainland in a more fundamental way.

That is what I said, why has no force conquered the others - because no one can strike a strong enough balance in forces to defend and wipe out another place. I don't think the three would band together because they are heated rivals. You might see two band together but not all three.

Oh, I had liked that the magic isle was strong in magic when we had mentioned it in the discussion post a couple weeks back. I think the concept works, but it also means that there won't be much magic building on the continent. And this may have been from the post that accidentally erased, but I think that is like saying, "ok, magic builders you are limited to this island and this island only, and really can't have a part in the main story line on the mainland"

Even if we don't incorporate the metal plot into the backstory, I was still going to use the metal in my faction - as it is going to be set in the outlaw lands trying to kill magicians and would need something to do this with!!! haha. I am just throwing out ideas and problems with some ideas I see.

The carrying a vessel with you is such a cool idea, but I just feel like that "imprisons" the outlaws who use magic on the magic isle and to one type of magic completely.

None of it really effects me, personally, I just didn't want to see one of the more fantastical elements hard to modify for those who wish to play around with it.

[wobnam]

The carrying a vessel with you is such a cool idea, but I just feel like that "imprisons" the outlaws who use magic on the magic isle and to one type of magic completely.

Could you explain why/how this is any more "imprisoning" than any other solution?

[skaforhire]

The carrying a vessel with you is such a cool idea, but I just feel like that "imprisons" the outlaws who use magic on the magic isle and to one type of magic completely.

Could you explain why/how this is any more "imprisoning" than any other solution?

Sure,

Like I said above that, its the concept that magic really only works on the island - thus, telling those who base their character around magic that they are fairly limited where they can interact. Remember, coming up with ingenious plans to store magic will be cool, but also puts a limitation (or requirements) on those who use it when there are challenges that are specific to the mainland.

But really, Wobnam, I think this is just you and me shooting ideas back and forth about this, and very few others caring. I will shut up now to make it easy.