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14th Century Cannon

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14th Century Cannon

Postby Trigger » Sat Jan 22, 2005 8:46 pm

Hey, does anyone have a pic of a 14th century cannon for a reference?
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Postby castlebrickman » Sat Jan 22, 2005 10:58 pm

have you tried to look up 14th century cannon on a seach engine?
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Postby Trigger » Mon Jan 24, 2005 9:49 pm

Yeah, google only have some very vague pics that I can't use.
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Postby lemon_squeezer2 » Tue Jan 25, 2005 3:14 pm

In Europe, the use of gunpowder was very quickly adapted for use of cannons and firearms. The earliest records of cannons come from the 14th century. The earliest drawing of such a device is this here. An actual photo can be found here. Later on in the same century, smaller devices such as these were employed.

Hope that helps!

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Postby Umgarla » Tue Jan 25, 2005 5:19 pm

Actually I think gunpowder was used as early as the 12th century in Europe...
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Postby lemon_squeezer2 » Tue Jan 25, 2005 5:39 pm

Umgarla wrote:Actually I think gunpowder was used as early as the 12th century in Europe...


Really? Where? As far as I know, there are no records of any sort of firearms at this time. Heck - the Chinese still hadn't discovered it that early. Most historians agree that the Chinese first discovered Gunpowder in the late 13th century and used it for fireworks and sometimes strapped small rockets on arrows. In Europe, gunpowder was either independently discovered around the same time or Arab traders brought the knowledge of such things over.
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Postby Trigger » Tue Jan 25, 2005 5:54 pm

Thanks for the pics. I know what I'll be doin' now.
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Postby Umgarla » Tue Jan 25, 2005 9:34 pm

My fault, they didn't have canons in Europe untill the 13th century, and they were poorly constructed. The reason I know this is that I saw a 13th century canon at Mont st. Michel in Bretagne on a vacation... ;)

Off topic I know, just wanted to correct my mistake...
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Postby JPinoy » Wed Jan 26, 2005 12:06 am

Black Powder was discovered sometime between the 9th and 11th century. There have been tomb carvings dated around 10th century China that depicts spear-launching metal tubes carried by a foot soldier. Not to mention some grenade-like weapon being thrown by a soldier next to the other.

Its not just the Arab traders, remember that the Mongols conquered most of Asia including the majority of the Asian continent portion of the Islamic Empire. It is they who were the main vehicle of the exchange of ideas and trade, especially during the height of "Pax Mongolia" when you could travel from the Anatolia's Aegean coast to the China's Pacific shores without much worry as the route was protected by Mongol Empire soldiers.
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Re: 14th Century Cannon

Postby J_MAN » Sat Jan 15, 2011 9:17 am

If I remember correctly a cannon from this period in time was called a 'bombard'.
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Re: 14th Century Cannon

Postby Heir of Black Falcon » Wed Jan 19, 2011 3:26 am

J-Man,

Wow necroposted.... big time.

Six years ago today I was half way through my masters degree.

On the subject cannons have all sorts of names during this period. A bit of the info above it a little off but to really get it one would need to spill much more ink (virtual ink here maybe). Bert Hall is a book that is a must if one wants the low down on medieval and early modern gunpowder, firearms, and their use.

Needless to say the earliest reference we have to real firearms that is clear(not simply explosive powder being used) is 1326 in Italy. The first picture is from the same year in England. Most of the next 50 years references are pretty small and indicate little real importance. First major use of handguns was the Hussites in the 1420s-1430s in Bohemia where maybe one or two out of 20 had a firearm- still not earth shattering. They likely did as well as they did because the wagons and religious convictions than guns but an important step on the development. It is not until the 1470s or 1480s individualized firearms start making real progress and replacing handguns and crossbows. They likely do not make the majority of any missile arm of a medieval army until this point perhaps but more likely this happens during the first half of the 16th. By the 1370s or so gunpowder weapons come in on the major scene for sieges but more supporting other traditional engines such as trebuchets, catapults, etc.

The equipment the Mongols had did not contain what most people would consider as firearms. More projectiles loosened by traditional means, great crossbows etc. that had some explosive, incendiary on them. There have been a number of people who have tried promoting the idea of early cannons and such brought by the Mongols but most have been refuted by lack of real supporting evidence. That said adding a material that is either explosive or an incendiary could easily have given the Mongols a major advantage in sieges which was not always their strong point but this does not equal firearms. Having looked over much of the evidence for this I am convinced they were not but I admit I am at the mercy of whomever translated it as I read very little eastern European languages.

It does seem like in the far east firearms were progressing in the 14th as well, perhaps independently. Regardless older, tried and true forms of arms remained the mainstay for them well into the modern period. Why fix something that is not broke.

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Re: 14th Century Cannon

Postby elwurmogrande » Tue May 10, 2011 9:04 pm

Hi,

Well, I have seen original projectiles at Eltz Castle, which date back to the 1330s, when the castle was besieged. These arrow like projectiles were fired from Trutz Eltz, a small castle built near Eltz Castle and they were fired by a type of cannon generally known as pot-de-fer. One of these was excavated near Loshult/Denmark.

Eltz Castle in the background, Trutz Eltz in the foreground
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2f/Burg_Eltz_und_Burg_Trutzeltz.jpg

replica
http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=155490654491618&comments&ref=mf

replica at Eltz Castle
http://content.grin.com/binary/wi24/109405/11.jpg

original projectiles
http://nuernberg.bayern-online.de/uploads/pics/pfeile_museum.jpg

Of interest might also be the Tannenberg Buechse. It was used to defend Tannenberg Castle in 1399. Recently I have seen a replica at an exhibition in Herne/Germany, but it was "only" a hand held gun.

However, the castle itself was besieged and destroyed with the help of a massive cannon used by the forces of Frankfurt. It weight approximately 3500 kg and 20 horses were needed to tow it.

And finally the town of Aachen, were the German kings were coronated, bought their first fire-arms in 1346.

I tried to build a few cannons earlier, but I think I have to redesign them

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http://www.mocpages.com/image_zoom.php?mocid=219630&id=/user_images/29862/12816611452


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Last edited by elwurmogrande on Wed May 11, 2011 6:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 14th Century Cannon

Postby wobnam » Wed May 11, 2011 1:11 am

Nice to see necroposting can lead to something good, nice posts from both of you.
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