Blame The Masses

Discussion of general LEGO topics
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Farithdir
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Re: Blame The Masses

Post by Farithdir »

Sir_Marcellus wrote:
Jojo wrote:I'll grant you asylum. Just bring a toothbrush :-)


Bye
Jojo
Could you count me in, too? :wink:

Ah, yes, bazookas, machine guns and dinos for us violent Americans. What's next? Will they give us Tom Clancey sets? War re-enactments sets? Viet nam? The Rwandan Genocide? God forbid. This is indeed a pity.


Actually if done right, some war re-enactment sets would be great. I'm 100% serious.


Anyways, what I think is ironic is that while many here are saying "ah those dang Americans, they just want to see stuff blow ", it is the Vikings that are most violent. For centuries they raped, pillaged, robbed, killed, and burned anything in their path. They are the more violent line when you look at this through historical context. BUT of course, Lego, in it's attempt to appeal to young children, is going to portay the as Vikings seem, ermmm....well how should I put it......either nice, friendly, peace-loving "good guys", or their classic, dumber-than-a-box-of-rocks "bad guys". Not that it matters to us, because no AFoL in his right mind would follow the story line Lego spoon feeds us.

If the previous paragraph made any sense I'll be amazed.
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Dragonlord Esq.
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Post by Dragonlord Esq. »

With gansta rap, Grand Theft Auto, etc. being mainstream, I don't think it's going to be Dino Attack or whatever that sends kids over the edge. Seriously, almost all of the old LEGO themes have something to do with war and bloodshed. What do you think the Crusaders are going to do when they break through that wall? Shake the Black Falcon's hands? No, they're going to kill them. Those smiley faces hide cruel intentions. :D So how is a jeep with a machine gun on it any different than a cart with a crossbow on it, or a Pirate ship with cannons on it?
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Post by The Brick Rat »

From the oversized vehicles packing modern day firepower to the dinosaurs that look out of place in a brick construction set, the whole DINO theme has a very Megablokish feel to it. And I think TLC designed it that way purposefully. For years LEGO has been losing market share to Megabloks in the North American market. My guess is that TLCs target audience for this theme is kids who prefer Megabloks to LEGO. Catch their eye with something that resembles their favorite brand and expose them to better quality elements and a superior building experience (Megabloks minifig sets are highly juniorized). It will be interesting to see if this marketing ploy pays off for TLC.

And why no Vikings at retail for N.A.? Walmart, Target, TRU, etc. only have so much shelf space, and with DINOs taking up some of that space something else has to go. But, TLC knows the Viking line will sell in N.A. so they will offer it through S@H and probably the LEGO b&m stores (and if someone like TRU asks to carry it I'm sure TLC will accomodate them).

That leaves the question of why no DINOs in Europe? From what I've heard, Megabloks has little (if any) presence in Europe. TLC probably thinks (rightly IMO) that the DINO line, with its Megablokish looks and unusually violent (for LEGO) feel, that it would have little appeal in the European market. My understanding is that Megabloks has fairly strong presence in Australia, so it will be interesting to see if DINOs is released Down Under.

All speculation on my part, but that's my take on this whole situation.
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Post by rogue27 »

Robin Hood wrote:
Draygen wrote:I don't really see what the huge uproar is about. If you can just order them over the Internet..
Ah! Now that is the question. Because its cheaper to buy from the stores. When you order online or by phone it cost anywhere from $2 to $50 extra bucks to get the set shipped to you. Also you can occasionally get DEALS! Something I have never heard of at Shop@Home.

I disagree.

At stores, you have to pay sales tax which is often about the same as shipping would be from S@H. S@H usually has many items available for up to 50% off and rotates the sale items every few weeks. S@H also has some very good bundle deals like the Castle Legend Bundle they had at the end of 2003. (GI, BFF, and DSBS for $90) There is a nice bulk discount on bags of parts and baseplates. Finally, they usually have free shipping in October and November on orders of $100 or more.
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Dragon Master
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Post by Dragon Master »

At stores, you have to pay sales tax which is often about the same as shipping would be from S@H. S@H usually has many items available for up to 50% off and rotates the sale items every few weeks. S@H also has some very good bundle deals like the Castle Legend Bundle they had at the end of 2003. (GI, BFF, and DSBS for $90) There is a nice bulk discount on bags of parts and baseplates. Finally, they usually have free shipping in October and November on orders of $100 or more.
I actually prefer purchasing my sets online from TLC as opposed to stores. You never know if the sets will be in stock at a local store, or how many will be there. And sometimes the prices could even be higher. And eventually all the sets do go on clearance.

The shipping charges really aren't that bad, and sometimes there are nice discounts if you order a certain amount.

I also like to add a few more things to my cart evertyime I buy online, such as parts packs not available at stores.

More and more Americans (and people in general) are living online. This includes shopping. So I'd say today people are more in it for the convinience of staying at home and shopping, then the instant gratification of going to the store.

Plus when you buy online there isn't any akward momnets, and you don't have to say to the cashier:

"Err...these 4679 Bonus tubs...are...uh for...umm...my little cousins...err...BIRTHDAY, yeah thats it..."

DM :wink:
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Trigger
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Post by Trigger »

Wow. And just when I thought Lego was going to be good this year. Gosh, freakin' hyperactive five year olds messin' up our chances of getting anything of quality from Lego.
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Re: Blame The Masses

Post by Jipay »

My explaination is that in europe we don't see as much violence as in usa. war on your territory just ruin everything and people just want to leave peacefully now : we don't see as many violent shows as in the US : I've been in the USA and Europe.
Canada is a bit different, but it seems they are more and more exposed to the US culture (exception : quebec :mrgreen: ) This is for the dino set part.
Concerning the Viking part, if I remember correctly, most of the kids don't have good history classes in the USA. how many times i've been through US forum with guys asking what the holocost was :shock: . In Europe history is taught completely from the age of 5/6 to the age of 18 : you have history class every week, at least 2 hours a week. You cover everything, from the ancient egypt to the fall Berlin Mauer. This is why a lot of kids could be really appealed to an historical line. The viking line is also targeting the increasing number of people interested by the fantasy stuff in Europe, as for instance role playing games and so. :P
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ezehogan
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Post by ezehogan »

I agree with The Brick Rat in this case. Lego is trying to strategically market the new sets to either gain or keep market share.

I still don't like the decision though. Back 10 and 20 years ago, Lego didn't have to do this to make a profit. They only had to do what they had always done; make great sets. If Lego would simply rerelease its classic sets and themes on a large scale, I can't imagine any kid not being breath taken.

To me, the very fact that this strategy is needed shows how bad Lego has really sunk over the last few years. I don't think they started losing money because the tastes of children changed, I think its because they made lousy sets and threw a lot of money in the trash with licensed themes (NBA? We REALLY needed that...). A lot of people here try to blame video games for Lego's downfall when that simply isn't the case. When I was a kid, I played a lot of video games, but still loved my Lego and bought sets all the time. If video games were to blame, then that also means that Megabloks would feel the wrath but that doesn't seem to be the case. The bottom line is the fact that Lego stopped producing great sets that kids drooled over, and so kids either shifted to other construction toys or just didn't buy any at all.

It really isn't hard to understand. All one has to do is look back at sets like the Black Seas Barracuda, Skull's Eye Schooner, and the ONLY available Lego Pirate Ship right now in the Jack Stone line. The previous mentions were IRRISISTABLE to kids. The current one is a joke. All one has to do is look at the King's Castle, the Black Knight's Castle, and the KKII assortment. Kids saw the former castles and imagined all of the fun days they could spend playing with them. Kids see the current castles and realize how stupid and fake they look and just aren't as interested.

Lastly, Lego shifted away from their own standards, which has hurt them fiscally. Their licensed themes don't come in the traditional yellow skin tones, and put off a lot of long time buyers. They changed some of the colors which had been standard for decades seemingly just for fun. The ole' smiley face heads which were so prevailent cannot be found in today's sets. Piece count in sets continues to fall drastically although the prices stay the same, and lastly, Lego makes huge cheat bricks so that alternate models aren't possible.

If anyone is to blame for the lack of popularity Lego is seeing today, it is Lego themselves. They are the ones making the decisions that are killing themselves. It all began in 1993 and has slowly escalated to the point where the company simply doesn't produce anything worth buying anymore, and when it seems as though they have finally come up with a seller, they decide not to sell it in favor of releasing sets that aren't "traditional".

If Lego wants to survive, they either need to just wipe the slate clean, cater to their fans and release bricks in the old colors and rerelease sure fire classic sets on a large scale, or hire some people that post here to design for them :wink: .
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Post by 00Psyren00 »

I agree with The Brick Rat in this case. Lego is trying to strategically market the new sets to either gain or keep market share.

I still don't like the decision though. Back 10 and 20 years ago, Lego didn't have to do this to make a profit. They only had to do what they had always done; make great sets. If Lego would simply rerelease its classic sets and themes on a large scale, I can't imagine any kid not being breath taken.

To me, the very fact that this strategy is needed shows how bad Lego has really sunk over the last few years. I don't think they started losing money because the tastes of children changed, I think its because they made lousy sets and threw a lot of money in the trash with licensed themes (NBA? We REALLY needed that...). A lot of people here try to blame video games for Lego's downfall when that simply isn't the case. When I was a kid, I played a lot of video games, but still loved my Lego and bought sets all the time. If video games were to blame, then that also means that Megabloks would feel the wrath but that doesn't seem to be the case. The bottom line is the fact that Lego stopped producing great sets that kids drooled over, and so kids either shifted to other construction toys or just didn't buy any at all.

It really isn't hard to understand. All one has to do is look back at sets like the Black Seas Barracuda, Skull's Eye Schooner, and the ONLY available Lego Pirate Ship right now in the Jack Stone line. The previous mentions were IRRISISTABLE to kids. The current one is a joke. All one has to do is look at the King's Castle, the Black Knight's Castle, and the KKII assortment. Kids saw the former castles and imagined all of the fun days they could spend playing with them. Kids see the current castles and realize how stupid and fake they look and just aren't as interested.

Lastly, Lego shifted away from their own standards, which has hurt them fiscally. Their licensed themes don't come in the traditional yellow skin tones, and put off a lot of long time buyers. They changed some of the colors which had been standard for decades seemingly just for fun. The ole' smiley face heads which were so prevailent cannot be found in today's sets. Piece count in sets continues to fall drastically although the prices stay the same, and lastly, Lego makes huge cheat bricks so that alternate models aren't possible.

If anyone is to blame for the lack of popularity Lego is seeing today, it is Lego themselves. They are the ones making the decisions that are killing themselves. It all began in 1993 and has slowly escalated to the point where the company simply doesn't produce anything worth buying anymore, and when it seems as though they have finally come up with a seller, they decide not to sell it in favor of releasing sets that aren't "traditional".

If Lego wants to survive, they either need to just wipe the slate clean, cater to their fans and release bricks in the old colors and rerelease sure fire classic sets on a large scale, or hire some people that post here to design for them .
_________________
Wow. Well put, that's exactly how I feel about lego these days, I've just been finding it hard to say it so well.
I am in total agreement...
8)
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Post by Teh Stud »

porschecm2 wrote:If Lego was really that bad, they wouldn't release them at all in the US. But they are releasing them here. And personally, I think if they sell amazingly well through S@H, they may bring to retail. Also, think about this: the decision may not necessarily have to do with the consumers. The simple fact is, Lego makes more money through S@H than through retail, because they garner the full retail price without the retailer taking out their profit share. So by selling them through S@H strictly, Lego will be making large profits(though whether these profits will be more than smaller individual profits from a larger market, I can't say.)

Cm2
This is a great point. Several years ago TLC reps constantly talked about how TLC's goals were to be the largest toy company in the world. Their decisions, (poor decisions, in my opinion), largely revolved around market share. Now, the TLC reps constantly talk about profitability. Selling Vikings through Shop at Home exclusively should provide an interesting sales test case for TLC. As stated above, they can always change the decision later.... It's not like the sets will spoil on the shelves. :)
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Re: Blame The Masses

Post by TwoTonic Knight »

Jipay wrote:My explaination is that in europe we don't see as much violence as in usa. war on your territory just ruin everything and people just want to leave peacefully now :
Here in the U.S., my son is taught that the Balkans are part of Europe. Silly us. :D
Canada is a bit different, but it seems they are more and more exposed to the US culture (exception : quebec :mrgreen: ) This is for the dino set part.
Concerning the Viking part, if I remember correctly, most of the kids don't have good history classes in the USA. how many times i've been through US forum with guys asking what the holocost was :shock: . In Europe history is taught completely from the age of 5/6 to the age of 18 : you have history class every week, at least 2 hours a week.
That's three hours a week less than my son gets here.
You cover everything, from the ancient egypt to the fall Berlin Mauer. This is why a lot of kids could be really appealed to an historical line. The viking line is also targeting the increasing number of people interested by the fantasy stuff in Europe, as for instance role playing games and so. :P


Yeah, don't give role-playing stuff to the North Americans, where role-playing was originated. :wink:

I think Vikings not going into North American retail stores is more about shelf space and internal marketing conflicts rather than anything to do with history classes.
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Re: Blame The Masses

Post by JPinoy »

Sir_Marcellus wrote: Ah, yes, bazookas, machine guns and dinos for us violent Americans. What's next? Will they give us Tom Clancey sets? War re-enactments sets? Viet nam? The Rwandan Genocide? God forbid. This is indeed a pity.
Actually... a military theme doesn't sound so bad. Perhaps they could have Alien invaders -vs- the world's military. That way we humans will not be portrayed as fighting against one another, but rather a vile enemy from another world.

Think Star Gate, you got Air Force special operations guys fighting aliens.
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Post by Blueandwhite »

ezehogan wrote:A lot of people here try to blame video games for Lego's downfall when that simply isn't the case. When I was a kid, I played a lot of video games, but still loved my Lego and bought sets all the time. If video games were to blame, then that also means that Megabloks would feel the wrath but that doesn't seem to be the case. The bottom line is the fact that Lego stopped producing great sets that kids drooled over, and so kids either shifted to other construction toys or just didn't buy any at all.
I really wish that was the case, but I believe that the electronic entertainment industry has taken a huge share of the toy market. The fact that LEGO is so expensive makes it particularly vulnerable to alternate forms of entertainment. Consumers only have so much they can spend on toys. Alot of that money will certainly end up being spent on the next Grand Theft Auto, or Metal Gear Solid.

Again, I think you are forgetting that many kids come from households with a limited fixed income. Many of these kids must make a choice between a videogame or a LEGO set. Heck, at $89.99, most large sets are the equivilant of two video games. LEGO is simply too expensive for many consumers.
If anyone is to blame for the lack of popularity Lego is seeing today, it is Lego themselves. They are the ones making the decisions that are killing themselves. It all began in 1993 and has slowly escalated to the point where the company simply doesn't produce anything worth buying anymore, and when it seems as though they have finally come up with a seller, they decide not to sell it in favor of releasing sets that aren't "traditional".
Possibly.

I think it is more plausable that these changes were sparked by a decline in sales. You have to figure, it was in the early to mid 1990s that the videogame industry really began to take off! LEGO, while appealing to most of us, may not have been as appealing to the general consumer. I don't agree with many of the changes made by LEGO, and I certainly don't like most of their new lines, but I also appreciate that I am not their target audience. I don't really have a good idea of what sells with kids. Many of LEGO's decusions (good or bad) were undoubtedly the result of market studies, and research.

LEGO is a company struggling for market share in a dying industry. Videogames have cut heavily into their profit margin, and I can only hope they find the stability they need to continue.


Later.
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