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Helmet Discussion

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Postby Recluce » Wed Sep 07, 2005 8:34 pm

You could, but I wouldn't dare! TTK's just watching for such blasphemy, and then the inquisition.... [shudders] No thank you sir, not me. I'll not call it that. Let's just say its a great little fantasy looking thing.

I'll bet TTK has a problem watching "A Knight's Tale", too...

I am actually interested in which "primary" types of helmets TLC hasn't yet made, or which isn't available to us (I'm including others like Red and LA) for purchase. I'm thinking German salet, with visor and bevor. Anyone else?
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Postby Mr. D » Thu Sep 08, 2005 12:37 am

TLC has yet to make a great-helm. Until recently, they didn't have anything very close to a barbute, but the new Shadow Knight helm fills in for that nicely now.

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Postby Damien » Sat Sep 10, 2005 6:45 am

Ya know.. when this thread disappeared, I didn't even think to check this forum for it!


I have something to add that might be of interest (the rest of the conversation I'm leaving as-is, as there's really nothing else to add to most of it.)


Two things:

1) The 'texture' of the flared helm exists on both the crown and the 'dragon helm.' So it's quite likely that it's more a function of the production or the design itself rather than any inherent intent for it to represent mail.

Just a thought.


I am actually interested in which "primary" types of helmets TLC hasn't yet made, or which isn't available to us (I'm including others like Red and LA) for purchase. I'm thinking German salet, with visor and bevor. Anyone else?


I think most of the bases are actually covered (except for a really good great helm like Jeff designed). From here on in, most designs would be 'filling gaps.' There are a few open-face helms already. You could make a good Scottish Burgonet.. but that could be considered covered by existing helms, as could probably most every other helmet.

There are plenty of designs I'd like to see, but most of them fall under a sub-category of an existing type of helmet (even if it's fairly different from those we have access to).


I don't think I need to be an expert on medieval warfare to say that this is a stretch. Of course over-simplification is an issue! It is quite apparent that KKII draws its inspiration from a different source than any of the previous Castle lines.


Of course the designs are more out there. But not as much as some people make it out to be. I feel that if the designs were dark grey or black, people would have much less of a problem with many of them. In my opinion, the worst design is the red visor. The others are actually quite nice, in more appropriate colours.

But they're too big. They should have cut-outs at the top like the original pointed visor. As is they add too much bulk to the helmet and make the head look huge.
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Postby Blueandwhite » Sat Sep 10, 2005 4:06 pm

Damien wrote:
I don't think I need to be an expert on medieval warfare to say that this is a stretch. Of course over-simplification is an issue! It is quite apparent that KKII draws its inspiration from a different source than any of the previous Castle lines.


Of course the designs are more out there. But not as much as some people make it out to be. I feel that if the designs were dark grey or black, people would have much less of a problem with many of them. In my opinion, the worst design is the red visor. The others are actually quite nice, in more appropriate colours.


I agree. That being said, I don't feel that the Red, Blue or Black helmets (Vladek) are that inspiring. The size alone is reason enough to avoid using these helms. Things are only made worse by the obviously modern design elements, which simply don't blend well with earlier helms. I'm not suggesting that these visors have no place in your collection; I'm simply stating that I feel they diverge too much from earlier designs.

On the other hand, the Purple and Green visors would certainly be useable if presented in a more appropriate colour. Although they too suffer from LEGO's modernization (particularly the Green visor which looks like a space-helmet for Oscar the Grouch), these helmets still manage to fit in with earlier designs. If they were available in better colours (right now I'm partial to pearl grey), they would certainly be useful. Heck, if they are willing to release black and silver duplo Knights, why can't we get some armour in pearl grey?

The Barbute of course, is just fine (colours and all).

Damien wrote:But they're too big. They should have cut-outs at the top like the original pointed visor. As is they add too much bulk to the helmet and make the head look huge.


Definitely. This is a 'big' issue! This is a particularly noticable problem with the red visor which is positively huge. I also find the blue and black visors to be too big for my tastes (regardless of colour), however I can live with the green and purple visors. Still, when I look at any of these guys, I am constantly reminded of Lord Dark Helmet from "Spaceballs".

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Postby Damien » Sun Sep 11, 2005 11:03 am

I agree. That being said, I don't feel that the Red, Blue or Black helmets (Vladek) are that inspiring. The size alone is reason enough to avoid using these helms. Things are only made worse by the obviously modern design elements, which simply don't blend well with earlier helms. I'm not suggesting that these visors have no place in your collection; I'm simply stating that I feel they diverge too much from earlier designs.



I know what you're saying. To some extent I agree. I'm not exactly sure about 'modernization' -- but the new helms, whether you love or hate them, are definitely a divergence from the older styles.

I'm not huge on Vladek's helm. I think it's really good for a 'black knights leader' kind of thing. In other words -- it's nice in moderation. Too much of it would look silly. But just one can turn just another black-clad soldier into the leader character, or something.

I hate the Red visor. Period. I've tried painting it, snipping it, sanding it.... nothing works. It's crappy.

The purple one is actually kind of cool. The shape is nice, and almost historical in a way. But the colour has got to go. Yes, historically knights did paint their armour. But in my LEGO world -- big tough knights carrying swords as big as themselves don't paint their equipment sissy colours like purple and baby blue.

And I do like the baby blue helm, it's another one of those "in moderation" designs. I think it looks good as a jousting helm. But not in baby blue.


In my free time I'm working on modifying these helmets. I've been playing with my Citadel paints to see if I can do an exact match of LEGO's light and dark greys. And I've got plenty of black. My plan is to experiment with shaving down some of the visors so they aren't so bulky looking -- condense the visor more like the old pointed ones, into more of a 'line' across the opening of the helm rather than covering from chin to the top of the head.

Then they'll be painted.

When I finally get it all finished, I'll take pictures.

But I'm not keen on buying overpriced KK2 sets just to destroy the helmets, so I'm only buying the visors when I see then really cheap on Bricklink -- slow going.




Still, when I look at any of these guys, I am constantly reminded of Lord Dark Helmet from "Spaceballs".


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Postby architect » Sun Sep 11, 2005 3:15 pm

blueandwhite wrote:If they were available in better colours (right now I'm partial to pearl grey), they would certainly be useful. Heck, if they are willing to release black and silver duplo Knights, why can't we get some armour in pearl grey?


I believe that LEGO used up much of their pearl grey pellets making bricks and plates for a Legoland Park model of a Virgin Airlines jet. The extra pearl grey pieces were sold off in the BrickFest auction. LEGO has not said they are out of these pellets, but I have a feeling they are.

I do agree that pearl grey would make very nice armor. Traditional LEGO armor colors like light grey, dark grey, and black would help the newer designs. But they still aren't as good as the early castle line helmets.

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Postby Blueandwhite » Sun Sep 11, 2005 4:31 pm

architect wrote:I believe that LEGO used up much of their pearl grey pellets making bricks and plates for a Legoland Park model of a Virgin Airlines jet. The extra pearl grey pieces were sold off in the BrickFest auction. LEGO has not said they are out of these pellets, but I have a feeling they are.

I do agree that pearl grey would make very nice armor. Traditional LEGO armor colors like light grey, dark grey, and black would help the newer designs. But they still aren't as good as the early castle line helmets.

Ben


How disappointing. Pearl grey was one of the nicer colours LEGO introduced. Still, I can always dream...

(A little off topic, but)

Is there a comprehensive list of colours still in production? I mean, there's Peeron, but is there a better list out there? KKII has a number of pearl grey bricks, including pearl grey lances. So I'm kind of wondering, is this the last year for pearl-coloured bricks? After all, they do have that wonderful shine to them.

Again, thanks for the info.

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Postby Lord_Of_The_LEGO » Mon Sep 12, 2005 3:08 pm

architect wrote:I believe that LEGO used up much of their pearl grey pellets making bricks and plates for a Legoland Park model of a Virgin Airlines jet. The extra pearl grey pieces were sold off in the BrickFest auction. LEGO has not said they are out of these pellets, but I have a feeling they are.


LEGO can always make more pellets. Look a the MAERSK ship re-release. They said they didn't have any more MAERSK blue pellets, but when the MAERSK Company demanded more sets, the LEGO Company said, "Oh, look, I guess we CAN make some more..."

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Postby architect » Mon Sep 12, 2005 5:08 pm

LEGO can always make more pellets. Look a the MAERSK ship re-release. They said they didn't have any more MAERSK blue pellets, but when the MAERSK Company demanded more sets, the LEGO Company said, "Oh, look, I guess we CAN make some more..."


That is not the whole story. Maersk had to foot the entire bill for making more Maersk blue pellets. This was the only way LEGO would make more ships for them. Maersk agreed because the company and employees really liked that awesome model. I agree that LEGO could make more of any color such as pearl grey for weapons. However, I think it is unlikely for rare colors to return after pellet supplies dwindle. LEGO must keep costs down and a good way to do that is to only use pellets that they have large quantities of in stock, such as the bleys :?

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Postby Tanotrooper » Wed Sep 28, 2005 12:08 pm

uhm, why do you think the down thing down the helmet has that rough surface instead of flat?

actually, the basic black falcon type helmet, is based of the helmet mentioned before, and a roman archer helmet.
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Postby Recluce » Wed Sep 28, 2005 1:26 pm

Yep, that surface is textured to indicate maille, no doubt about it.
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Postby Formendacil » Wed Sep 28, 2005 3:56 pm

Recluce wrote:Yep, that surface is textured to indicate maille, no doubt about it.


Umm....

Have you ever felt the slope of a 2x2 slope piece? Until I got my "Grand Tournament", every single one of those pieces that I ever felt had exactly the same roughness on its slope.
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Postby Recluce » Wed Sep 28, 2005 4:18 pm

Formendacil wrote:
Recluce wrote:Yep, that surface is textured to indicate maille, no doubt about it.


Umm....

Have you ever felt the slope of a 2x2 slope piece? Until I got my "Grand Tournament", every single one of those pieces that I ever felt had exactly the same roughness on its slope.


Yes, I have, and while I hadn't even thought about them being the same texture, that doesn't change my opinion of it being maille. Most likely it is simply the same effect used in their drafting program. LEGO is capable of making slopes that don't have the texture, so I know the texture doesn't always indicate maille, but on helmets in this instance I think it most certainly does.
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Postby Damien » Wed Sep 28, 2005 9:58 pm

Personally, I think it's more a function of the mold, or molding process.

Not only do many standard LEGO bricks have the same texture, but so does the lower portion of the gold crown and dragon helm. (And I really doubt those are supposed to be mail cheek-guards on the dragon helm.)

Surely one could consider that texture as mail. But I strongly doubt that was the intention of the sculptors at LEGO, considering the frequency with which that texture can be found.
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Postby TwoTonic Knight » Wed Sep 28, 2005 10:42 pm

Damien wrote:Personally, I think it's more a function of the mold, or molding process.

Not only do many standard LEGO bricks have the same texture, but so does the lower portion of the gold crown and dragon helm. (And I really doubt those are supposed to be mail cheek-guards on the dragon helm.)

Surely one could consider that texture as mail. But I strongly doubt that was the intention of the sculptors at LEGO, considering the frequency with which that texture can be found.



You point out the one, but don't really draw attention to the other: It seems pretty obvious that its supposed to be mail on the crown. I see utterly no reason to suppose that the texture means ONLY mail or means ONLY not mail. The one does not exclude the other in either direction - LEGO has always been prone to adapting one thing to another purpose.
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