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Medieval Influence: Chronicles of Narnia Movies

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Postby TwoTonic Knight » Mon Dec 12, 2005 8:09 pm

architect wrote:
KK2 designs don't resemble LotR designs in the slightest - I wish they did. At least Alan Lee based his designs on real weapons and armor.


I do not agree about sets themselves. You have a point about weaponry though. KKII is definitely its own concept and theme. But I believe design is influenced greatly by LOTR. For example Castle of Morcia has tiers in different levels and the center section is taller than the side towers.

Vladek's Dark Fortress is like the Black Gate of Mordor with Isengard Towers or Dark Towers. The set is long, narrow, tall, black, and has a central door. Ok so its not exactly the same. The Viking Fortress got the cool door ;) It must have taken them a bit to figure out that interesting construction.

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What you mentioned (at length and more than once) was what was essentially the minifig stuff: cloths, armor, weapons, banners, etc. So I'm not sure if you are abandoning those claims and shifting over to set design entirely, or simply expanding on your original views.

As to the set designs, I must disagree with that, too. I don't really see any of LotR in the designs of the sets themselves, just previous LEGO designs. The KK2 Castle of Morcia resembles nothing so much as the KK1 castle. It's debateable if the view of Minas Tirith you use as a comparison was even available to the LEGO designers at the time that they had to have designed the KK2 castle, in any case.

Any fold-out Castle LEGO has done can duplicate the long wall look of Vladek's Castle. These are standard LEGO thematic devices - I honestly don't see any LotR in them at all.

Maybe Narnia will be a positive influence, but I think it is a long reach to blacken LotR with any imagined parallels with KK2.

As to the whole Christian Allegory folderol: that's really off-topic, and unless soneone tells you such is present, it is quite easy to miss the connection, so I wouldn't make a big deal out of it.
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Postby VikingLord » Mon Dec 12, 2005 9:15 pm

I thought Narnia was very good, up to par with LOTR.
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Postby Damien » Tue Dec 13, 2005 12:01 am

Haven't seen the movie. I intend to simply because I'm sure I'll get a great kick out of looking at the wonderful arms and armour in the film. The storyline itself doesn't interest me overmuch.. but big battle scenes and fantasy worlds always interest me.. so..


Don't recall ever hearing before that Lewis and Tolkien were 'competing' with one another.

It is true that The Chronicles is a gigantic Christian allegory.. but even as a fervent non-Christian I don't see that as a problem. What you, personally, take away from the story, whether a deeper appreciation for your faith, or just a big smile and a "that was wicked cool" -- is more important.

And C.S. Lewis was a talented enough author that the allegory isn't so overt that you can't avoid it. So if it bothers you.. just enjoy the story as a story and ignore the allegory.


In any event, I'll be seeing the movie probably sometime this week. I like to see movies late at night on weekdays as it cuts down on the imbecilic 13 year olds that can't sit through a movie without snickering at kissing scenes or commenting loudly on whatever they like or dislike.
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Postby lil Jon » Tue Dec 13, 2005 12:11 am

From what I've seen from commercials, the costumes look awesome. They're similar to the Crusader LEGO figure.

I really doubt the movie will influence because I don't really think KK2 resembles LotR at all. I can only hope that LEGO castle does get directed towards a realistic style rather than fantasy.
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Postby architect » Tue Dec 13, 2005 6:17 am

TwoTonic Knight wrote:
What you mentioned (at length and more than once) was what was essentially the minifig stuff: cloths, armor, weapons, banners, etc. So I'm not sure if you are abandoning those claims and shifting over to set design entirely, or simply expanding on your original views.

As to the set designs, I must disagree with that, too. I don't really see any of LotR in the designs of the sets themselves, just previous LEGO designs. The KK2 Castle of Morcia resembles nothing so much as the KK1 castle. It's debateable if the view of Minas Tirith you use as a comparison was even available to the LEGO designers at the time that they had to have designed the KK2 castle, in any case.

Any fold-out Castle LEGO has done can duplicate the long wall look of Vladek's Castle. These are standard LEGO thematic devices - I honestly don't see any LotR in them at all.

Maybe Narnia will be a positive influence, but I think it is a long reach to blacken LotR with any imagined parallels with KK2.


I agree with you about most kk2 costumes/armor are not influenced by LOTR. (The minifig and maxifig Vladek visors do remind me of Sauron's helmet from the movies). My point, which I did not make clearly, was that if movies influence set design to some point, I hope that semi-historic costume in Narnia would inspire historically clad minifigures in new castle sets.

Many of us agree with you that Castle of Morcia was ripped off of 6091/6098 King Leo's Castle. It roughly has the same floor plan at 6091. That leads me to believe that the castle was designed very quickly in 2003 for a 2004 release (and possibly in time to see LOTR Minas Tirith in the Two Towers - released late 2002). LEGO has said that current design cycles are a year or less before product is released. Of course all of this is conjecture on my part, but I think it is possible.

I still believe that current movies have an influence in set design but I understand that many do not agree. We can not tell because we aren't on the design teams. (Even if we were TLG would melt our bricks if we released design secrets ;) )

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Postby TheBohrok » Tue Dec 20, 2005 11:31 pm

I finally had the chance to see this movie last night, and I much enjoyed it. Having seen it, I am fine with the fact that LEGO did not obtain the license because I do not know what sets they could have produced that would do it some justice.
However, the minifigs would have been excellent, flesh-toned or not. Also, it could have been easy to make some of the characters with elements that already exist in some of the Harry Potter sets (e.g. phoenix, wolves, goblins, mermaids).
I do hope that LEGO is influenced to a degree by this movie to produce more realistic Castle accessories in the future.
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Postby The_Fright_Knight » Sat Apr 08, 2006 5:33 pm

An awesome movie. Wicked FX, sweet battle scenes, cool costumes.... And did anyone notice the gorilla in Aslan's Army?
Anyway I found this on Brickshelf a while ago. Everyones probably already seen it, but here it is:
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Enjoy!
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Postby The_Fright_Knight » Sat Apr 08, 2006 5:42 pm

HenrytheV wrote:The books were originally written as allegory's of the Christian faith,


Actually, i heard they weren't. My Mom read it somewhere. :roll:
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Postby wunztwice » Sat Apr 08, 2006 6:49 pm

The_Fright_Knight wrote:
HenrytheV wrote:The books were originally written as allegory's of the Christian faith,


Actually, i heard they weren't. My Mom read it somewhere. :roll:


To be quite honest and foreward about this, they actually are. Aslan is meant to represent Christ (He is the son of the 'Emperor over the sea'). His sacrifice on the stone table to over-ride the 'deap magic' is like Jesus on the cross. The stone table cracks signifiying that it has been done and of course the resurection is simply Aslan's return to life. It is also very important to point out that it was Aslan who needed to be sacrificed to 'apease the deep magic', and no-one else. He was of pure heart and had never done wrong (sinned). This is of highest importance, and is stated in the book and movie.

The Hordesman wrote:I dont like the "one true ruler" thing though, it is pretty much a dictatorship propaganda.


Not really, this is exactly like the "King of all kings" from the Bible. Essentially Aslan (like Christ) is the savior of the world (if you place your faith in Him), and to a beleiver should be considered higher than any worldly ruler. It's not a dictatorship, its a personal relationship, much as the Pevensie children have with Aslan.

More on-topic...

TwoTonic Knight wrote:KK2 designs don't resemble LotR designs in the slightest - I wish they did. At least Alan Lee based his designs on real weapons and armor.


There are some specific reasons as to why they are not too similar, simply being released so close to LOTR and not wanting to just copy them being one major reason.

Something I would also like to point out is the fact that Weta Workshop (who supplied LOTR with their armor and other props) also did the armor and props for Narnia. They have a full-time swordsmith and have extensive training in armor-smithing, plus experience from LOTR. They worked very hardt o create new armor which resembled historical stuff and worked just as well/historical.

As to any influence the movie costumes/armor might have on Lego stuff, well I can see how they might draw inspiration from the film (and I reallly hope they do) especially with dresses and the like. However as far as direct copies or anything too similar, or any influence on KKII.3 there is no way. KKII was probably already designed by the time the movie came out near Christmas.

So, let's all hope the Lego designers can draw INSPIRATION from this great movie (and LOTR) in their furture lines!
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Postby Formendacil » Sat Apr 08, 2006 6:57 pm

The Hordesman wrote:I dont like the "one true ruler" thing though, it is pretty much a dictatorship propaganda.


Quite apart from any in-the-book justification or Biblical parallels, (remember, don't stray too far down that road, or you'll be zapped...) I rather like the idea of "one true ruler".

You can blame it on my Castle LEGO, if you like. Those little buggers were the first medieval, Middle Ages, fantasy-ish things to captivate me, and all the things that followed, including a general fascination with kings, queens, and other things medieval, can probably find a connection back to Castle LEGO.

For what it's worth, I rather like the idea of absolute monarchy (or at least monarchy in which the king/queen is a bit more than a figurehead). But you can blame that as much on Canadian politics as you can on Aragorn or anything else medievally, fantastically, or LEGOly related.
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Postby TwoTonic Knight » Sat Apr 08, 2006 8:12 pm

Formendacil wrote:For what it's worth, I rather like the idea of absolute monarchy (or at least monarchy in which the king/queen is a bit more than a figurehead).


Saddam? Stalin? Mao? Vlad the Impaler? The guy who if I mention his name I lose the argument? Or do they not qualify since they don't have "king" appended to their absolute rule? :D

As to Narnia itself, well I'll finally see it. Got the DVD and I'm housesitting at a place that has a 62 inch TV widescreen (and I hooked up the surround system), so I'm looking forward to it (though why, I'm not sure since I never thought that much of the book).
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Postby Lord Nev » Tue Apr 11, 2006 5:53 pm

I liked the Narnia movie, but the first 15 minutes of it were them going "Oh cool snow! Oh cool snow!"

I do think that Lego certainly could have taken inspiration form LOTR and Narnia, but unlikely. I do see the similarity of Minas Tirith and KK2 castle, but I think it's coincidental. We can only hope that Lego will make better stuff because of Narnia.

I concur. Do NOT blacken LOTR with KK2 comparisons!
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Postby Blueandwhite » Tue Apr 11, 2006 9:41 pm

Formendacil wrote:For what it's worth, I rather like the idea of absolute monarchy (or at least monarchy in which the king/queen is a bit more than a figurehead). But you can blame that as much on Canadian politics as you can on Aragorn or anything else medievally, fantastically, or LEGOly related.


"But as men, for the atteyning of peace, and conservation of themselves thereby, have made an Artificiall Man, which we call a Common-wealth; so also have they made Artificial Chains, called Civill Lawes, which they themselves, by mutuall covenants, have [I09] fastened at one end, to the lips of that Man, or Assembly, to whom they have given the Soveraigne Power; and at the other end to their own Ears."

Thomas Hobbes

The Leviathan Part II: Of Common-Wealth


Wow!

Formendancil, I didn't know you were a Hobbesian!

Later.
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Postby The Hordesman » Tue Apr 11, 2006 10:09 pm

Uhm... You made it look like my quotation. :o

Seriously, heired power is foolish power... What if the swedish king was my ruler? Chaos would ensue...

Neither do I really see the comparison between Christ and Aslan- Aslan is clearly a warrior, while Jesus a pacifist. Therefore, Aslan is more of a cruel conqueror (unquestionable) while Jesus is more understanding, and no conqueror. White Witch or Aslan, Aslan's side is pretty much the gooder of two evils. Thus said, Aslan may appear Jesus-like, but he is no incarnation of Jesus, and therefore, his rule can (and should) be questionable. Only a diety is able to rule alone since, all other creatures, are flawed to think only of themselves and their close ones in a bigger whole- lone creatures makes bad rulers.
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Postby Blueandwhite » Tue Apr 11, 2006 10:30 pm

The Hordesman wrote:Uhm... You made it look like my quotation. :o



Fixed :wink: .

Aslan is what he is. He is a lion, and he behaves accordingly. Still, the analogy between Christ and Aslan is appropriate. His behavior, while lionish is not that of a warrior (as evidenced by his closeness to Lucy, and his complete willingness to sacrafice himself). And remember, this parallel was intended by Lewis (and is made painfully obvious in the Last Battle).


Later.
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