Theme Discussion - Lion Knights

[Devari]

I had a thought... Wouldn't it be neat to have a discussion about a theme (minifigs mostly, but also some general set-related discussion) perhaps every two weeks or so? So, as long as the admins don't mind, I'd like to start this off...




This time 'round:

Lion Knights:

Link to sets!
Link to minifigs! (Thanks to Minimundo.de)

So... Please discuss your general impressions on the theme. These could be based on minifigs, sets, anything! Hopefully we can have a good discussion going.

[Dan_BL]

Sounds like a great idea to me!

I always liked this faction but I do have a few questions about it that maybe someone else has ideas on.

First off, what have axes (on torsos) to do with crusaders? Is there some sort of historical background that I don't quite understand?

I find it kind of strange that this faction has maidens-and then BK and BF came along and they didn't have any at all. Much less DM and WP. Women extinct?

[Sir Terrance]

I think this is a good idea to start. One thing that has always puzzled me is shouldn't they have a white torso and shield with a red cross, like the real Christian cursades against the Muslims?

[Sir Terrance]

Whoops, forgot the main part of this thread. The crusaders had one of the best castle sets ever and cool knights and shields. It was nice how they came with women too. I like the fact that the two shields had inverted colors making them not all the same. It was also nice that some of them came with Euro armor too. I liked how LEGO made lots of littler sets with troops, so to build an army you didn't have to break your budget and wouldn't have to get tons of the same set, change of pieces this way.

[Jojo]

Hello!


A good idea this is!

The Lion knights are my second favourite faction right after... erm... after which faction again?

The minifigs look noble with their red-golden colour scheme, really a royal faction. I'm quite sure LEGO intended those guys to resemble the men of King Richard Lionheart, though they didn't predefine any story line back then.

The axemen are a battalion of the Lion knights. Since the Lions are most certainly the royal soldiers there are many men under their leader's command, not necassarily all of them Lions but tributary peasants that are obliged to serve their lord in wartimes. Sort of leased troops...

As for the name "Crusaders": This name is entirely an invention of Todd Lehman that he used for his Fibblesnork guide and, following Fibblesnork, for the Lugnet database. It's not the name that TLC themselves used for this faction. So there is no reason why those "Crusaders" would be supposed to wear the "original" crusaders' robe. For this same reason there is no need to fit those axemen into any historical background...


Bye
Jojo


Ah yes! That's been my favourite faction again!

[LEGOFREAK]

I think Jojo nailed it right on the head. I know from a couple of sets I got when I was a kid there werent any predefined stories built in - no six 'good guys' to one 'bad guy' fights.
The name I had never heard of until I started going to lego sites. I always just called them the lionhearts. It seemed at the time appropriate.
This faction has always been my favorite one because for some reason I never had as many of these as I did the Black Falcons. So to me they were the underdog.

I hope this doesnt cause Jojo's troops to invade my fledgling village.

freak

[gerkenz]

Hmmm. funny - I just asked about the name "crusades or lions" in another thread

So...hmmm the Lion Knights are my favourite faction of course.
I've posted the reasons in the other thread about "which faction is my favorite"

Just one thing else to say: the falcons are my second fav. fac.

[Kev]

These guys are Lion Knights. The Crusaders were the 375 knights since they had a yellow castle representing the sandy colored castle of the middle east, and it was also the only set to come with actual crusaders, the white Maltese Cross knights <----, which represents the Hospitallers, actual crusading knights. The other factions represented the diversity of knights that went on Crusade. I don't think of the Lion Knights as the Lionhearts, as that would confuse them with the, uh, Lionhearts, which were the guys in 1592 that had Lions and hearts on their shields. I also put the Crusader Cart guys from 6077 in with the 375 Crusader Castle because of their name and time they were released.

The Lion Knights I love as they had a great castle and a very simple, yet realistic symbol. I love their allies, the Crossed Axemen, but wish they would have come with a shield, though I suppose axemen and archers tended to not have shields. These guys didn't go on Crusade as they were too busy fighting the Black Falcons, who also ignored the Pope to stay at home and fight each, that's how much the Lion Knights and Black Falcons don't get along. (I have to keep them in seperate rooms, if they are in the same room, even many feet apart, they'll lob arrows and boulders and taunt each other constantly)

I didn't realize the Lion Knights came with euro-armor. That's cool! i don't have many of the smaller sets though I love the entire modularity of the Lion Knight line and feel it was the high point of Lego Castle.

[AoErat]

I dunno, I seem to remember always calling them "Crusader Knights" before I even knew about the internet. Let me try to find where I got that from ...

Anyway, I like 'em a lot, even though I only have 3 sets(double catapult, treasure-cart polybag, Inn legend).

Something I really though was nice is that there are a *ton* of these sets. A couple new ones each year, but still the same theme. Now they change factions every Megablocks year, and there's no keeping up. With the Lions/Crusaders, you could expand your armies over the few years they were on the shelves.

As mentioned before, they are very royal-looking - they always played the good guys between my brother and I.

In conclusion, give me the smallest Lion set over *any* of the new stuff, and I'll be happy.

[AoErat]

As for the name "Crusaders": This name is entirely an invention of Todd Lehman that he used for his Fibblesnork guide and, following Fibblesnork, for the Lugnet database. It's not the name that TLC themselves used for this faction.

This is actually incorrect.

As I mentioned in my other post, I went and looked at some of my older inserts (1992), and lo and behold they are labeled "Crusaders". The Castle page has 4 themes listed, with the caption "Collect from each of these Castle themes and decide who will rule your Kingdom", so it definately isn't a mere suggestion, I would say. Listed are "Crusaders" (The example carries a lion shield), "Wolfpack", "Forestmen", and "Black Knights".

Here is the brickshelf link to the page: http://library.brickshelf.com/scans/cat ... us-03.html

[TwoTonic Knight]

As for the name "Crusaders": This name is entirely an invention of Todd Lehman that he used for his Fibblesnork guide and, following Fibblesnork, for the Lugnet database. It's not the name that TLC themselves used for this faction.

This is actually incorrect.

As I mentioned in my other post, I went and looked at some of my older inserts (1992), and lo and behold they are labeled "Crusaders". The Castle page has 4 themes listed, with the caption "Collect from each of these Castle themes and decide who will rule your Kingdom", so it definately isn't a mere suggestion, I would say. Listed are "Crusaders" (The example carries a lion shield), "Wolfpack", "Forestmen", and "Black Knights".

Here is the brickshelf link to the page: http://library.brickshelf.com/scans/cat ... us-03.html

I vaguely remembered seeing that, but I searched in the wrong direction (started at '91 and looked at the earlier catalogs). Well-spotted!

I like the figs, but not the shields - I just don't care for the primary-colored red/blue/yellow look. I've replaced them all with kite shields with various styled and colored Crusader crosses.

[The Blue Knight]

I've always called them the Lion guys, not to be confused with the abominable cartoon lions. They were bad guys to my 375 guys for years. My collection once reached 484 of these guys. Alas money troubles forced the sale of all by 80 or so. I've never considered them crusaders. I like them, they are now a vassal feifdom to the King , providing troops and other services in time of need.

"Crusader" is a more general term used to describe any Christian soldiers who engaged in the Holy Wars againt the Saracens/Moslems. Several knighthoods cropped up during the arduous journeys undertaken to the Holy Land. The Knights Templar were founded from 8 knights who sought refuge in Jerusalem in what they believed to be the temple of Solomon. They were joined by the Hospitaliers, Knights of Malta and so on. I would love to get my hands on a Templar template (say that three times fast) for torsos and shields. Anyone? I would need it in Word.

The Lion device was taken by Richard (great name BTW) the Lionheart on his crusade, so maybe I'll rethink their place in my Lego universe. This is a great idea!

Richard the not-so-lion-hearted. (Sneaking away and buggering off...)

[Jojo]

Hello!

This is actually incorrect.

I'm always eager to learn :-)

I went and looked at some of my older inserts (1992), and lo and behold they are labeled "Crusaders". The Castle page has 4 themes listed, with the caption "Collect from each of these Castle themes and decide who will rule your Kingdom", so it definately isn't a mere suggestion, I would say. Listed are "Crusaders" (The example carries a lion shield), "Wolfpack", "Forestmen", and "Black Knights".

OK, thanks! I didn't know that.
So what can I say now against calling the Lion Knights "Crusaders"...? Maybe this: Mentioning the name "Crusaders" for the first time in 1992 for a faction that is already eight years old is not authoritative to me :-)
If the 1984s catalogue had called them "Crusaders"! But my 1984s Catalogue only mentions Robin Hood, Ivanhoe and King Arthus.

Richard's remark is very useful: The crusaders have not been a "faction". There is no noble family that's called "Crusaders". Black Falcons can be crusaders as well as Lion Knights.


Bye
Jojo

[AoErat]

So what can I say now against calling the Lion Knights "Crusaders"...? Maybe this: Mentioning the name "Crusaders" for the first time in 1992 for a faction that is already eight years old is not authoritative to me

Yeah, that is a bit odd. But hey, I'm just saying that they were in fact called that at one point in time, not necessarily that they must be called "Crusaders". As others have stated, that name doesn't really fit.