Constructive Criticism of 10193

[Brickzone]

Dan:

I respectfully disagree. While there was a definite downturn in Lego in the late 90s/early 00s, the recent sets outdo just about any previous sets at all. They have far more detail, make use of more intricate techniques, have a broader part palette with some fantastic parts. Many recent sets have a great balance of large structural parts, ordinary bricks, slopes, plates (large, medium and small), modified bricks, special parts, etc. Minifigs have never been more interesting. Set designs are also very stylish, and the action elements and features are great for kids (and indeed it is fun to see how they are done).

We are in a new golden age of Lego, and this Mediaeval Market Place set is the epitome of it (well, along with the modular buildings, epic sculptures, star wars collectors eds, fun themes like Agents, fantasy Castle, and now Pirates).

I can't wait for it to be available. While I would like if it was in normal shops, one cannot have everything. Lego does far better than most commercial companies (I am rather skeptical of "free" market forces, even before this current crisis), and I think it's rather silly if they have indeed listened to AFOLs to complain about being pandered to.

This set is really what a lot of people were waiting for.

[timber_wolf899]

sheesh Dan......dont think Lego can/ever wil please you.

Anyway......i think the issue here is not so much one of design, but marketing.

....Only two years ago we were told, no civy sets because they wont sell according to focus group voodoo.

Now, low and behold, the biggest castle set ever, parts wise, and it is civy........so..........Chew on that for a while.

I do agree with you that this needs to be followed up. Would loe to see a 2000-3000 pcs keep or something?

Doubt we'll get a church, thank you PC poliece,b ut i'd buy one if they made it.

[Lord Felix]

I don't mean to rain on anyone's parade, but this set hardly covers any new ground and 95% of this set is a direct rip-off of MOCs and what the "fans" have been doing for years. The concept and scale are almost identical to my early custom kits and all of subsequent MOC's they have inspired. Hmmm... a LEGO cow? About 20 years late on that one! I'm sure most people here could build these buildings from their own bricks simply based on the pictures. In the end all you're really getting for your $100 is a few cows, a turkey, new printed tiles and some new minifig torsos. Those buildings are hardly original and you can find links to better right here on this web site. It's obvious to me that Lego is basically repackaging OUR ideas and selling them back to us and it blows my mind that everyone is buying it hook, line and sinker.

P.S. What's next? A Mark V tank from Indiana Jones III?

I agree, although you could cut lego some slack.
I think it's great that lego is replicating techniques found in MOCs around our community; it means they're watching us and also that they're listening to us.
It must be said that all rights belong to lego; using ideas that others have made for their company may be annoying, but it's their product; they can do as they wish.
The only other thing I wanted to point out is that now that we're getting sets with parts more usual to our techniques, the better; we can use sets, where usually the pieces are cheaper per piece (assuming you round up a touch, and rare pieces), to our advantage.

Hope you understand what I'm trying to say

[Voran_the_Scholar]

My question for Dan is: how is this set much different from the green grocer and its like? Did you not like those because they were too close to the standard of fan creations? I rather like the idea that LEGO is letting top notch builders build top notch stuff. It means we'll be seeing more improvement down the road.

And besides, if you don't want one, that makes us all the more happy. More for us!

God bless.

Tom

[Sir Kohran]

To those saying this set is unoriginal and just rips off MoCs - it's true that the set design is no masterpiece or particularly creative by anyone's measure, but then it could be argued that most Lego sets have never been particularly original - almost every big castle that's been released has taken inspiration from a previous one. The important thing about this set is what it provides us as builders - a big array of new pieces and figs, all of which will doubtlessly find places in many new MoCs (see, it's a recurring cycle).

[Blueandwhite]

I don't mean to rain on anyone's parade, but this set hardly covers any new ground and 95% of this set is a direct rip-off of MOCs and what the "fans" have been doing for years. The concept and scale are almost identical to my early custom kits and all of subsequent MOC's they have inspired. Hmmm... a LEGO cow? About 20 years late on that one! I'm sure most people here could build these buildings from their own bricks simply based on the pictures. In the end all you're really getting for your $100 is a few cows, a turkey, new printed tiles and some new minifig torsos. Those buildings are hardly original and you can find links to better right here on this web site. It's obvious to me that Lego is basically repackaging OUR ideas and selling them back to us and it blows my mind that everyone is buying it hook, line and sinker.

P.S. What's next? A Mark V tank from Indiana Jones III?

I'd like to believe that I'm not quite that guilable.

Irrespective of the set design, the price itself makes this set stand out. It's very hard to overlook the cost-per-piece ratio here. Also, let's not forget that there are very few builders who actually build at your level. Scouring through the folders on brickshelf it is readily apparent that only a small minority of builders could replicate a design similar to this.

The fact that LEGO is basically packaging AFOL-like designs doesn't really bother me too much because it also means we're getting AFOL-like part selection. I can appreciate how you as the person who basically started this hinged tudor house might be put off by this set, but for most AFOLs this is as good as it gets.

[LordZode]

I don't mean to rain on anyone's parade, but this set hardly covers any new ground and 95% of this set is a direct rip-off of MOCs and what the "fans" have been doing for years. The concept and scale are almost identical to my early custom kits and all of subsequent MOC's they have inspired. Hmmm... a LEGO cow? About 20 years late on that one! I'm sure most people here could build these buildings from their own bricks simply based on the pictures. In the end all you're really getting for your $100 is a few cows, a turkey, new printed tiles and some new minifig torsos. Those buildings are hardly original and you can find links to better right here on this web site. It's obvious to me that Lego is basically repackaging OUR ideas and selling them back to us and it blows my mind that everyone is buying it hook, line and sinker.

P.S. What's next? A Mark V tank from Indiana Jones III?

I feel that fans and Lego designers can inspire each other and it's not fair to say that it's "obvious" that Lego is repacking our ideas - it's their product, and they have come out with this set in response to the demands of builders who aren't as adept as yourself.

[Old_School_Fan]

I don't understand how the set design can be considered as 'repackaged fan MOCs'. People have been building structures similiar ways for years, and I'm not just talking about Lego. So if by this same token one says "The design of that skyscraper looks very similiar to the design of that one!" are we supposed to be offended because that architect STOLE the other's idea?

I think it's great that Lego is coming out with a well designed set. Far better than anything I could do. And no, I don't just want to look at pictures, I need fully detailed instructions and all of the bricks for $100.

I'm also not sure how Dan could say that this hardly covers any new ground. It covers new ground for the fact that it's a village and not just one building. My question to Dan is, if this isn't good enough for you, what is?

[LordZode]

I'm also not sure how Dan could say that this hardly covers any new ground. It covers new ground for the fact that it's a village and not just one building. My question to Dan is, if this isn't good enough for you, what is?

You're exactly right, Dan is simply trying to inflame the community and dampen the fantastic response to this dream-set.

Not everyone uses Bricklink or has the funds to buy old sets or the skills or time to make genius MOC's. This set, the number of pieces, the theme, the pricepoint, everything is a godsend for both kids and more casual AFOL's such as myself who love castle and have since we were children.

If the Lego Company responding and interacting with the fan community offends you Dan perhaps you should find a new hobby, because your response has proved nothing will be good enough for you.

[Lord Felix]

I'm also not sure how Dan could say that this hardly covers any new ground. It covers new ground for the fact that it's a village and not just one building. My question to Dan is, if this isn't good enough for you, what is?

You're exactly right, Dan is simply trying to inflame the community and dampen the fantastic response to this dream-set.

Not everyone uses Bricklink or has the funds to buy old sets or the skills or time to make genius MOC's. This set, the number of pieces, the theme, the pricepoint, everything is a godsend for both kids and more casual AFOL's such as myself who love castle and have since we were children.

If the Lego Company responding and interacting with the fan community offends you Dan perhaps you should find a new hobby, because your response has proved nothing will be good enough for you.

This set is good. But you have to look at Dan! He was one of the first people to develop MOCs and many of the techniques that are now taken for granted (hinged tutor buildings, for one). This is the designer of the Blacksmith shop that was out a few years ago. His opinion, although negative, is not trolling or trying to inflame our community, or damper the "wow" factor of this set. He's saying that it's disappointing to see AFOLs who build masterpieces like this and then see TLG take their ideas and use them in sets, that are then purchased, excitedly, by the AFOLs. I can understand this idea. I find it exciting to see that the AFOL and TFOL community is having enough of a footprint on the Lego company so that they are willing to take and use our ideas and our input for these sets.

I don't want to start a fight, and I most definitely don't want this thread to be locked because people are getting worked up over one very experienced builder's frustrations and opinions.

And to Dan; the point of getting this set, besides the obvious rarities that you pointed out, is to get more pieces that can be used in the very techniques that we are already using so much; that sometimes require more expensive pieces. With sets using the techniques themselves, those pieces become more available and in more colors.

As for the set:
It's going to be a great set because pieces I don't have a large quantity of (not saying I have a large quantity of any piece) are going to be available all together in this set... simple, easy, and just one click away

[Count Blacktron]

It's obvious to me that Lego is basically repackaging OUR ideas and selling them back to us

And I hope they keep doing it. Set design has been way better recently and I think it has a lot to do with getting ideas from fans.

I wish they'd do that more often. I could write a book on what I'd like them to do for the next 50 years then. I'll still be collecting if they do things like this when I am 85 years old.

[architect]

I don't want to start a fight, and I most definitely don't want this thread to be locked because people are getting worked up over one very experienced builder's frustrations and opinions.

The comments posted so far in this thread have been civil. As long as members discuss the merits (or lack of merits) of this set, the thread will not be locked.

Trolling is not allowed on these forums and thats exactly what you are doing.

Enforcement of the Classic-Castle.com Terms of Service is reserved for the Administrators and Moderators. If anyone has an issue with another CC member, send us a PM prior to posting a complaint in the forum. Thanks.

Ben
CC Sets Admin

[MarioDAlessio]

Halve timber construction has been part of the Lego history for a long time predating the internet and the current AFOL community’s widespread sharing of MOCs ect:

1971
http://peeron.com/catalogs/1971/medium/1/

1978
http://peeron.com/scans/1592-1
http://www.peeron.com/scans/1589-1/

I think if the designers were to post in relation to this set I wouldn't be surprised that the finished design and detailing of the two buildings had been scaled back so as to keep the sets piece count down without sparing on the extraordinary assortment of accessories included; brick built tree, chicken, duck, rooster and the working watermill blacksmith hammer.

A lot of brick built Tudor Mocs are piece intensive, I note the single plate use of cross beams and the use of the telescope piece for vertical beams in leau of 1x cones and round plates.

Mario

[LordZode]

[

Enforcement of the Classic-Castle.com Terms of Service is reserved for the Administrators and Moderators. If anyone has an issue with another CC member, send us a PM prior to posting a complaint in the forum. Thanks.

Ben
CC Sets Admin

Point taken Ben, I re-edited that post to better express my feelings rather then seeming to invoke the CC ToS. Thanks

[JoshWedin]

I don't mean to rain on anyone's parade, but this set hardly covers any new ground and 95% of this set is a direct rip-off of MOCs and what the "fans" have been doing for years. The concept and scale are almost identical to my early custom kits and all of subsequent MOC's they have inspired.

Okay, Dan, I really have problems with much of your post. I have always respected you but the posts you have just written have diminished that. I have no problem with you not being impressed with the set. Its no skin off my nose, whether you like it or not. However, I find your attitude to be rude and arrogant. Perhaps you didn't mean to come across that way, but that's how it feels to me.

First of all, this set covers a lot of new ground. There has never been another set like it. Sure, it is similar to some MOCs, but it is the first SET of its kind.

You also heavily imply that Lego has ripped of your ideas as well as everything you've inspired. I have news for you. We have been asking for a set that incorporates the techniques and such that we have been using. Let me repeat. We have been asking for that. Maybe you weren't aware of the level of communication that the fan community has been having with the company, since you have been out of the loop for so long.
By designing and releasing this set, they are giving us what we have been begging for.

As for any inspiration you've engendered, that was some time ago. Tudor buildings are inspired by "real" tudor buildings. If you build a building with four walls, you will probably use hinge bricks. You weren't the first to do that. As for scale, that is based on the minifig. You didn't create that either. Your creations were excellent, for their time, and I've always been impressed that Lego used your blacksmith design. But you are not the inspiration for all civilian, medieval buildings.

It also seems quite contradictory that you are angry that they have made this similar to our MOC styles, but then are also upset that the Blacksmith shop was a "one-off". If they had made more, they would have been in the same style as one of your MOCs. I guess this is fine with you, since it is one of your MOCs that is in question.

Take care,
Josh