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Constructive Criticism of 10193

Discussion of official LEGO Castle Theme sets and products

Postby Dan » Mon Oct 13, 2008 1:23 am

I just built a Japanese castle for the GMLTC layout. Probably only has 20,000 pieces in it. Needs portions rebuilt this week so maybe 25,000 after the rebuild. I'll post pictures soon in an appropriate forum because this is definitely off topic!
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Postby Metatron » Mon Oct 13, 2008 10:16 am

Lord Felix wrote:This set is good. But you have to look at Dan! He was one of the first people to develop MOCs and many of the techniques that are now taken for granted (hinged tutor buildings, for one). This is the designer of the Blacksmith shop that was out a few years ago.


Yeah, none of us were building large-scale MOCs or doing our own thing until Dan came along. None of us!

:roll:

And yeah, those techniques were highly original.

MarioDAlessio wrote:Halve timber construction has been part of the Lego history for a long time predating the internet and the current AFOL community’s widespread sharing of MOCs ect:
1971
http://peeron.com/catalogs/1971/medium/1/
1978
http://peeron.com/scans/1592-1
http://www.peeron.com/scans/1589-1/


And where would we all be if Dan hadn't invented lego hinges!

Oh wait...

http://www.peeron.com/scans/6054-1
http://www.peeron.com/scans/6066-1
http://www.peeron.com/scans/6077-2

Can someone remind me of the point of this whole thread?

A funny thing about Dan's Blacksmith MOC - I never got around to buying it because all I really wanted was the blue slopes. I guess all that ingenious craftsmanship was just lost on me.

You know, the bricks only go together in so many different ways. Most of us that buy stuff in bulk have generally figured out the many ways to build. It really isn't some obscure alchemy that makes it possible.

To be honest, I am usually more impressed with interesting uses for bionickle parts (mainly because it's a line of lego that I tend to avoid). Sometimes I will see an interesting space MOC utilizing a new element in an interesting way. But rarely do I see castle MOCs that strike me the same way. And scale is not a factor for me - if anything, I am more impressed when someone does something well presented with very little:

DARKspawn's Micro-Flying-Citadel
http://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?i=2739923

NickGreat's White Samurai:
http://www.brickshelf.com/gallery/NickG ... _-_all.jpg

I'm just sayin'...

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Postby LordZode » Mon Oct 13, 2008 12:33 pm

A well thought out post Megatron you argue your points well and I agree with you. I don't see how the criticism of the set was constructive, not every Fan of Lego is part of the online MOC community and I think their will be many people delighted by this set, the variety it includes, and the brilliant price point.

On a slightly off-topic note, you posted Forestmen's River Fortress (6077)!

This design has always been striking to me, it is one of my most nostalgic sets that I got as a child along with Forestmens River Crossing :)

Metatron wrote:
Lord Felix wrote:This set is good. But you have to look at Dan! He was one of the first people to develop MOCs and many of the techniques that are now taken for granted (hinged tutor buildings, for one). This is the designer of the Blacksmith shop that was out a few years ago.


Yeah, none of us were building large-scale MOCs or doing our own thing until Dan came along. None of us!

:roll:

And yeah, those techniques were highly original.

MarioDAlessio wrote:Halve timber construction has been part of the Lego history for a long time predating the internet and the current AFOL community’s widespread sharing of MOCs ect:
1971
http://peeron.com/catalogs/1971/medium/1/
1978
http://peeron.com/scans/1592-1
http://www.peeron.com/scans/1589-1/


And where would we all be if Dan hadn't invented lego hinges!

Oh wait...

http://www.peeron.com/scans/6054-1
http://www.peeron.com/scans/6066-1
http://www.peeron.com/scans/6077-2

Can someone remind me of the point of this whole thread?

A funny thing about Dan's Blacksmith MOC - I never got around to buying it because all I really wanted was the blue slopes. I guess all that ingenious craftsmanship was just lost on me.

You know, the bricks only go together in so many different ways. Most of us that buy stuff in bulk have generally figured out the many ways to build. It really isn't some obscure alchemy that makes it possible.

To be honest, I am usually more impressed with interesting uses for bionickle parts (mainly because it's a line of lego that I tend to avoid). Sometimes I will see an interesting space MOC utilizing a new element in an interesting way. But rarely do I see castle MOCs that strike me the same way. And scale is not a factor for me - if anything, I am more impressed when someone does something well presented with very little:

DARKspawn's Micro-Flying-Citadel
http://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?i=2739923

NickGreat's White Samurai:
http://www.brickshelf.com/gallery/NickG ... _-_all.jpg

I'm just sayin'...

A little humility is a good thing!
P.S. If you need help making MOCs, making posts, or don't know what to do next, please, let me know! I'm here to help! ;)
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Postby Dan » Mon Oct 13, 2008 1:15 pm

If you have a problem with me, then send me a PM, email me (blackened[at]visi.com) or call me (612-229-0773). All this sniping behind message board personas is really childish.
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Postby Blueandwhite » Mon Oct 13, 2008 1:26 pm

LordZode wrote:A well thought out post Megatron you argue your points well and I agree with you. I don't see how the criticism of the set was constructive, not every Fan of Lego is part of the online MOC community and I think their will be many people delighted by this set, the variety it includes, and the brilliant price point.

On a slightly off-topic note, you posted Forestmen's River Fortress (6077)!

This design has always been striking to me, it is one of my most nostalgic sets that I got as a child along with Forestmens River Crossing :)


Unfortunately, these exchanges often become quite heated. Personally I'm bothered by the sarcasm more than I am by the criticism of the set itself. I still think what we're getting is an excellent set however I also feel that others are entitled to their opinion. I'm really uncomfortable with the thought of mocking other fans for their opinions or support of a fellow AFOL. I also feel that this set is far from being perfect yet I would hope that holding such an opinion doesn't warrant a sarcastic putdown to go with it.

I look forward to picking this set up when it's released. That being said, I definitely feel that constructive criticism can be a positive thing. Heck, without this kind of criticism we probably wouldn't have seen this set in the first place. Criticism from AFOLs has gone a long way making the brand what it is today.
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Postby Aliencat » Mon Oct 13, 2008 2:37 pm

I agree that there are a lot of MOCs out there that are better than this set, but really, isn't that why we build MOCs?
As a set I think Lego did a great job in presenting us fans with what we've been begging for. This is a great leap forward for the Castle theme if you ask me.
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Postby Dan » Mon Oct 13, 2008 4:11 pm

I guess I'm the only person seeing the sarcasm in Metatron's post then? I doubt it very much. His post has absolutely NOTHING to do with the actual subject of this thread and IS targeting me.

I wonder how different this thread/discussion would be if my comments came from a random/anonymous community member rather than someone with a very public history? I seem to be drawing an awful lot of attention for just voicing my opinion, as unpopular as it seems here. I didn't ride into this discussion on my high horse (although my original post was admittedly flavored by bitter disappointment ) but it sure feels like people are trying to knock me down because of who I am and what I have done in the past. I don't put myself on a pedestal so it would very nice if folks would stop insinuating that I'm some sort of egomaniac or claim to have invented the wheel.

I have also detected a certain level of unflattering cattiness from some quarters here and I don't think it helps foster a very diverse or friendly community. I think other people are afraid to express unpopular opinions because of the public flogging that could result. Several people have expressed their agreement with my critiques in private, yet very few have said anything in public. I'm sure that has something to do with not wanting to be targeted for public reprisals. *sigh*

P.S. Aliencat - nice way to bait a response from me and then edit your post. Who's real mature now?
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Postby Sir Dano » Mon Oct 13, 2008 4:21 pm

Dan wrote:If you have a problem with me, then send me a PM, email me (blackened[at]visi.com) or call me (*snip*). All this sniping behind message board personas is really childish.

I don't think it's a very good idea to give out your phone number online. ;)
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Postby Dan » Mon Oct 13, 2008 4:39 pm

Sir Dano wrote:I don't think it's a very good idea to give out your phone number online. ;)


The point is I'm not afraid to talk about this stuff by email, on the phone or in person. If someone wants respond to something I have said then they can call me up and we'll talk about it. I'm not going to hide behind my avatar, some made up screen name, or any other anonymity afforded by the internet.
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Postby Aliencat » Mon Oct 13, 2008 4:55 pm

Dan wrote:P.S. Aliencat - nice way to bait a response from me and then edit your post. Who's real mature now?

With all due respect, I'm sorry to have fed your sense that every member on this board has a problem with you, but honestly, rather than intentionally baiting a response, I was asked to edit my post because it seemed to have been too rude.
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Postby Maedhros » Mon Oct 13, 2008 5:27 pm

OK, folks, where's the hippie attitude? Peace, love and understanding! 8)

Nah, but seriously, isn't eight pages of bickering, bashing, flaming, trolling, roaring, raving and rampaging about who thought up which technique, what a good LEGO set is and what we can expect from LEGO quite enough?

Can't we just try to understand that our opinions differ and put it all behind us?

I love this site, and it's been my online home for years and years. Honestly I'm not sure what my life would have been like without CC. And I also love its members, that's YOU guys and girls. Seeing you act like this really makes me sad since all this runs contrary to the CC that I have known.

Now, let's get back to the love of these Danish plastic bricks that we all share and let this whole affair be a parenthesis in the history of Classic-Castle.com, shall we?

// Jonas Thungren Lindbärg (who doesn't like hiding behind screen names either, but believes Maedhros sounds so much funkier than Jonas ;))
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Postby plums_deify » Mon Oct 13, 2008 5:31 pm

Okay, everyone.

Things are clearly getting heated in this discussion. I'm going to go ahead and close this for now. If one of the admins feels we should open it back up again, then so be it.

The point of this thread was constructive feedback of the design of the new Castle set, not to argue.

Please, take the private debates to PM. This board is not for that purpose.
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