I hope you all got some sleep after cramming in some last-minute entries into the CCC. Thanks for all of your hard work.
From here on out, however, your challenge is going to be patience. We've now entered the traditional waiting game for results. I post it every year, so here's the reminder:
Do not ask about when the results will be posted. Period.
Asking in a round-about way, hinting at it, joking about it, etc, are all ways of asking about it, so we're asking kindly and politely to just. not. ask.
The results of the contest are traditionally posted sometime in February, and this has historically been mid-month. For those who are new, or those who need a reminder, the contest is entirely judged by the Admins of this site, who have families, jobs, and real-world obligations, in addition to sifting through close to 300 entries for the contest.
If you get antsy, and find yourself REALLY wanting to ask, please remember that Loki says no.
Knowledge is power. Power corrupts. Be Smart. Be evil.
Just for those people who are wanting something more than "Sometime in February" The past CCC result dates work out to an average of Feb. 8th.
CCC I: Feb 6th
CCC II: Feb 18th
CCC III: Feb 15th
CCC IV: Feb 5th
CCC V: Jan 26th
CCC VI: Jan 26th
CCC VII: Jan 28th
CCC VIII: Feb 8th
CCC IX: Feb 20th
CCC X: Feb 20th
I do highly recommend listening to Loki!
My Mocpages: http://www.mocpages.com/home.php/92572 and my Flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/93970753@N05/
Takkata brings up an excellent point: This marks the 11th year, and each year people get antsy and ask. You can imagine 11 years of "when will the results be posted?!" gets awfully old.
Knowledge is power. Power corrupts. Be Smart. Be evil.
Just out of curiosity, why does it take so long to get results for this contest posted? I mean, I understand the "we have real lives" reason, but after certain point, isn't it just more of that it's not really a priority for the judges to take an hour or two on a weekend to get their selections in?
Tomorrow will mark the third year in a row that we've set or tied a new record for longest time to get results posted. I understand that it's a volunteer effort, and I greatly appreciate everything that goes into it, but there's a difference between building anticipation, and stagnation.
Maybe the judging process is too complicated and is prohibitively time-consuming? Or maybe the people judging the contest are just burnt out after 10 years of having to sort through hundreds of entries?
In any case, I feel it's real detriment to the contest that it takes this long. It would be nice to see this issue addressed by the admins with some back and forth dialogue, as opposed to the, "please don't ask about the results, or face repercussions" sort of response.
Thanks for your consideration. I ask these questions with only the best intentions.
While I understand this is an unsatisfactory answer to some, I'm going to just say to please be patient. A contest on the scale of the CCC is not just a matter of "an hour or two on the weekend". This is a contest that involves a ton of man-hours. The behind-the-scenes aspect of this contest start usually in July or August, and leads on in through February. I know that for a couple of months there I'm spending time daily on the contest, and I'm sure the same is true for my colleagues. Not to mention, btw, that the contest has cost thousands of dollars over the years. Waiting a couple of additional days is surely a small price to ask.
I certainly am not complaining. It's more of an observation that the amount of time it takes seems to be so long that it kills some of the enthusiasm and excitement by the time the results are posted 50+ days after the fact (Not to mention that the MB usually isn't revealed until some days/weeks later, and x-category awards even longer still - sometimes to the point that they are practically forgotten about - last year they weren't posted until almost August!).
If it truly takes dozens of man hours to pick winners, maybe there is room for improving the process that would benefit both those doing the judging, and those waiting for the results. It seems like this would benefit from an open discussion with members of the community.
For example, if you guys are using a complicated rubric to evaluate every single entry, then perhaps it would simplify things to only evaluate your top 5 (or 10) entries in each category to save time. Of maybe the rubric could be simplified or more user friendly. Or if there are one or two admins whose votes are holding up the show, they could be asked to have results in by a certain date else their votes not be counted.
Obviously, I don't know much about the process, but it seems like opening it to some constructive criticism / new suggestions could only be beneficial.
I know I've never competed in a CCC before, nor have I been here on the site in general for 3 months yet, but after reading through this thread, I have to agree with AK's notion that some sort of improvement is possible. Of course he's not asking for the results, he's just wondering about the process. Yes, I'm sure that even though this takes long, all of the contestants appreciate the time and effort all of the admins put into this.
I can assure you that the contestants would be even more appreciative if judging time was cut even in half. Of course, I also know nothing about the scoring system, but I'm positive that improvements can be made.
Take the MocAthalon over on MOCpages for instance. There were 386 MOCs last year, and yet the judging was finished a mere 19 days after the contest deadline was over (that was with 6 judges and about 50 were probably judged before the deadline). The judges had school to do, jobs to go to, and families to take care of as well. On top of that, all of the neat statistics were included (most popular category, average points for a few of the categories, hardest/easiest judges, etc) in the post.
I'm sure that there are others wondering about the judging process, and still more who would gladly take some time and brainstorm possible practical solutions to the long wait time. If they come up with something great that would even make the admins' lives easier, why not go for it? After 10 + years of running the contest, I'm actually surprised that more efficient ways to judge the creations haven't been explored by means of asking the CC members. And from the looks of the times posted by Takkata, it doesn't look like anything has been explored by other means even inside the admin circle.
Please don't take this as a complaint, and not against any of the admins or against the admins as a whole (as I'm not one who is even waiting for the results, or have had to wait for CCC results in the past), but rather as a call for CC members and admins alike to work out something that would both cut down on the wait time as well as improve the way the LEGO creations are judged so that it makes the judges' lives easier.
(as a side note, the immediate message I got from the first post is this: "We are working on the judging, please be patient. Don't ask when the results will be released. Just know that they will eventually be released (probably in mid February). <b>No questions asked.</b>"
I'm sorry, but that just isn't friendly. I know it doesn't say "no questions asked," but that is the message this thread gives to users, even if they aren't part of the contest. The message leaves almost zero room for any chance of improvement. In addition, it also strikes a sense of fear "what if I do ask...not specifically about when the results will be released...but another question relating to the general long time...well, the admins might think that is "hinting" to asking about it....so I'd better not ask as the admins my question because they may not like it...."
I'm know that's not what was meant by it, but I can assure you that newcomers (and even long-term members) can't appreciate the zero-questions message. It puts them in a separate corner with a stern warning to stay away from the admins and their work "or else."
I have also experienced the constant wave of "when will the results be in" from judging contests. Yeah, it gets old, so maybe instead just say "we will have the results out when we have the results out." You can ask when the results will be released, and an admin might give you an answer, but for the most part we will just ignore it because we do our best to post the results as soon as we have them. Feel free to ask any other questions and we will do our best to answer them." That's the message I get from contests like those on MOCpages. There is a sense of community with the message of "freely ask your questions." No fear, and the admins direct repeated questions to an earlier answer or the rules thread, or just simply giving the same answer.
I'm sure that the admins want to expand and improve this site and to constantly grow in their relations with the CC members. And as such, would be more than willing to evaluate and explore new ideas of improvement.
Of course, there is still a huge thanks from all of the CCCXI competitors and the rest of the CC community (myself included of course) for all of the hard work you admins put into this site. And for that we are very grateful. We would just like it and appreciate you guys even more if we would be allowed to present ideas for improvement (even a thread that would allow for easy portrayal of those ideas) and see some action/communication about those ideas from the admins.
I believe that AK's initial venture into this thread could spark a great improvement for future CCCs and for the CC site in general.
Sincerely, and I'm sure on the behalf of many (if not most) of CC members and CCC competitors,
~ David FNJ
For the Glory of Loreos! [url=http://www.mocpages.com/home.php/97537]MOCpages[/url]
[url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidfnjlegoproductions/]Flickr[/url]
rogue27 wrote:I don't think you guys are taking that cat seriously enough.
I think they brought up great points and while they greatly appreciate the work the admins do, they feel a part of the community and want to help improve the process if possible. I get what Jordan is saying about losing momentum; After a few months you almost forget about the contest. You have a lot of great minds in this community that are eager to help. The AFOL/TFOL community has really grown since I started building and we want the site to grow and continue to attract more great builders to contribute to the community. While intended to be humorous, I think the tone of the message can be confrontational and could potentially alienate people.
These are valid points regardless of the kitty meme.
We know Jordan well enough to know of his best intentions for the progression of this site, but also that absolutely nothing here was meant as a personal attack to anyone. Additionally, we all understand what it means to have lives and how busy it can be. I'm in the hospital right now eagerly awaiting the arrival of my newest nephew. I put over 1,000 work miles on my car in the last week and a half, so we all can absolutely understand what it means to have busy lives.
We all appreciate the hard work the admins do. We enjoy dialoging with them. We enjoy their diligence. Nothing here is a personal attack or insult. All that was offered was honest, constructive criticism to possible speed up the process.
As an anonymous prize donor to this years contest (cats out of the bag now, huh?) it is quite discouraging for me to see such unwillingness to entertain the thought of constructive ideas. I have already purchased multiple sets to donate for future contests. I'm not donating them to brag on myself or pat myself on the back, but I do it because I believe in the nature of this site, all the hard work put into it and it's willingness to hear its members thoughts regarding the advancement.
I hope the admins will seriously consider the insights offered by others so far.
Okay I don't want to sound like a moderator but the topic you guys are having is kinda invalid due to the fact that none of us besides the admins know how the judging work there for none of you can actually say if it needs improving because you don't even know how it works. As it has been mentioned before the judges have lives and it's not like this is a first priority.
As for the whole complaining about it been slow is kinda what the admins were hoping to avoid which is why this topic was posted. Going back to the judging process it has worked for the last 10 years with almost no problem so give them time, after all all good things to those who wait.
Purple Wolf
There's always room for dessert. brickshelf
"Trolls exist! They steal your socks but only the left ones whats with that?"
Nobody is complaining, PW. We simply are interested in learning why it takes so long and would like the opportunity to have a discussion with the admins about potential improvements. This isn't because we are impatient, but because we feel that such a long waiting period is detrimental to the contest.
I think a lot of excellent points have been brought up since my comments, and I am looking forward to seeing what the Admins think of all this.
