Kaminoan's Roman Legionnaire

[Kaminoan]

Well here is the latest, the first Roman (Just for you guys I made him in Yellow even though I prefer Flesh):



I wanted to keep the shoulder detail of the armor, so even though it doesn't complete wrap I think this works well.

Helmet was inspired by RecluceMage.

Now time to decal the shield and finish the commanding officer the Centurion.

Kam

[Tedward]

That is fantastic. I love the Lorica. Is that made out of hockey body armour? The helmet is much simpler than mine but probably easier to do a lot of them and looks fine (especially in large numbers I bet.)

[Tanotrooper]

Ok, lets see...

pros:
+great pilum
+great idea to use the hockey armour

cons:
-the more barbarian looking head (personal aspect, though)
-the broadsword doesnt really match any Roman designs of gladii
-the cape
-the helmet looks like a quick custom
-the scutum is way too small

This is all seen from historical accurate point, though.

TT

[Kaminoan]

Yes that is black hockey armor for the Lorica. Just really wanted to keep the shoulder roll, think it is more critical to the armor design than complete torso coverage. After all nothing is going to completely wrap the torso and look right.

I want to spend a bit more time on my Pilum and make the tip more leaf shaped, but this was shinny and shinny is good sometimes.

I liked the rough bearded look, makes him look like he has been in battle for a bit. Just didn't think the clean shaved look would work as well.

The sword hilt and guard are pretty accurate for a Roman Gladius (http://www.mwart.com/images/p/Functiona ... 010_94.jpg). The point is a touch wrong as I suppose is the length, but I wouldn't call this a broadsword (which is technically 1 and a 1/2 hands). I didn't worry about the length because MANY things in LEGO aren't to scale and I didn't want to cut my one copy of this sword.

Really liked the cape, thought it added a touch to the figure. Gave it some additional texture. Looks as if the soldier just rolled off the battle field and into some display march. Plus it helps mask the red around the armor. Because it is hard to tell if this is torso red or cape red.

I played around with the Scutum, if you make it Longer it covers a LOT of the figure and thus detracts from the photos. If you look at the scutums in this photo (http://www.legionxxiv.org/images/photo06.jpg) you will see that they are made in different lengths for the historical re-enactment groups, so I took their lead. Don't know if that is entirely historically correct, but I am betting it is more correct than all were X size. It isn't like they had commercial machine driven manufacturing to make all exactly x inches long. The ones in the photos seem to go from the feet to the chest, which mine does.

This is LEGO after all and I don't think you can make ANY thing entirely historically accurate. It just won't look right because the scale is so out of whack that you can shoot for something close, but eventually you have to decide if you want the figure to look good or are you going to get the knife out and cut the whole thing up. Technically there shouldn't be riveted cross bars on top of the helmet, but I didn't feel like removing them. So yet another historical inaccurate flaw.

Kam

[Emp.Justinian]

Very nice work. I am always happy to see good roman lego and this certainly is very good. I do have to agree with tanotrooper that the head looks a little odd with the figure, but the rest is superb.The hock armor lorica segmenata was a stroke of geneous.

God's speed

Emp.Justinian

[Damien]

Wonderful Kam (and my appreciation that you used yellow, which is my own preference). I do love seeing your forays out of Star Wars - as they always come up quite well. I really dig this one. First, a few questions of my own:

When will this one be available from FC? And, please do give more info on that shield. Is it just a heavily-modded KK2 shield?

Helmet was inspired by RecluceMage.

Wasn't that originally done by TwoTonic? I could have sworn he first tried the brimmed helm to Roman helm conversion, as well as the first xiphos, gladius, and falcata/kopis mods.



Now, because I can't resist -- on to those finer points mentioned:

I want to spend a bit more time on my Pilum and make the tip more leaf shaped, but this was shinny and shinny is good sometimes.

I like this one. It gives the more vicious 'puncture-worthy' look to the pilum. They did have variant head-styles, so this one works as well as a more waisted, flat design.

I liked the rough bearded look, makes him look like he has been in battle for a bit. Just didn't think the clean shaved look would work as well.

Romans are known for having been pretty 'clean' for their time. Generally shaved with short hair. So while Tano raises a good point, it's worth noting that the Roman Legions were not entirely made up of actual Romans. Perhaps this soldier is of Germanic descent.

The sword hilt and guard are pretty accurate for a Roman Gladius

About as close as you'll get without heavy modding. Properly, a gladius has a spherical pommel rather than the Nordic 'lobate' pommel. But it's a minor detail. Those kinds of things sometimes need to be overlooked at this scale. Especially when you can just use what's available to you. Exchanging the grip and pommel (or just pommel) for a regular LEGO 'shortsword' might work for a more traditional look. But the modding itself would probably make for an ugly finished product. I know from experience that that kind of joining is very difficult to accomplish (especially with LA's fullered sword there, because the center of the blade is too thin for a pin).

The point is a touch wrong as I suppose is the length

The gladius had to be capable of forceful thrusts - so properly yeah, it should be cut into a heavy tapering point at the end. But the length isn't bad. Both because it's "LEGO scale" and because Roman Legions did adopt the spatha eventually, which was a longer version of the gladius (likely copied from the longer Germanic swords).

Don't know if that is entirely historically correct, but I am betting it is more correct than all were X size.

The scutum varied greatly in size. This one works well, I think. As you said, a much larger shield might be generally more accurate, but would detract a lot from the minifig itself.

but I wouldn't call this a broadsword (which is technically 1 and a 1/2 hands).

Not even that, but rather there's no such thing. 'Broadsword' was a term invented by Victorian snots with whippy, puny swords. The term was used to describe any military sword of their time or before. Essentially, any sword that wasn't a rapier or smallsword was a 'broadsword' - including hangers/cutlasses and war-worthy sabers.

Unfortunately, 'broadsword' has become the popular media term for any medieval-style cutting sword. It's the bane of many a history nerd's existance.

Anywho, the real life difference in size between a single-hand medieval sword and something like a gladius is surprisingly minimal. The difference can be as little as 6 inches. Practically not even worth talking about when you get to LEGO scale, where a 'shortsword' is practically as tall as the minifig!


Anyhow -- very cool. I hope to get a copy of this myself to add yet another minifig to my little 'historically-designed' collection.

[Tanotrooper]

Romans are known for having been pretty 'clean' for their time. Generally shaved with short hair. So while Tano raises a good point, it's worth noting that the Roman Legions were not entirely made up of actual Romans. Perhaps this soldier is of Germanic descent.

Then he should be in a auxiliary outfit. A gladius is impossible to make right? We'll see

The broadsword (wich is its official LA name I think) is good for the 4th-5th century legionnaires, or auxiliary cavalry units, because it could represent a spata.

Kaminoan, about those shields... quite an interesting pic you have there...

TT

edit: is this the new castle line kettle helmet? The metallic one? If it is, does the paint come off?

[E of Alshire]

Awww, I liked your fleshie figs.

I like this one! The helmet's the weak point here for me. After seeing so many fantastic ones a while back, this one looks a bit too rough-cut for me, though that's probably not as noticable in person.

I love the pilum! I don't know how it could be any better.

[The Blue Knight]

Jared, I like your Roman very much indeed. Some of this thread has been about historical accuracy. While this can be achieved in many respects, you are quite right about scale. The minifig we all love is wiefully out of scale from a real human, and so it is fitting that some of the customs we make are simularly out of scale.

In many cases customs are a balance of compromises. My club's train builders come up against this all the time. Minifigs are to large for the engines. Cars can look right, but only with one seat across, not two. Damien pointed this out in reference to the so-called shortsword, which seems as long as the longest long sword relative to height.

I think you have achieved a great balance of detail, accuracy, and scale. I think TTK's helmet looks best of all such helmets, yet it took a beastly long time to accomplish, so again, a trade off.

I like the lorica solition you come up with. The sword is not entirely out of place with later legionnairies. Although all soldiers were originally citizens, as the empire expanded service in the army became a path to citizenship for non-ethnic Romans, so his face looks fine to me. I think the scutum looks about right, but needs details. Is is a custom (meaning a new piece) or a mod? I like the look of the pilum, how did you do that weapon?

High marks over all, Richard

[Kaminoan]

Hey guys, sorry for the delay in my reply, I have been out of town.

As for the individual details of the figure, just check out the next BrickJournal. This figure was used in a review article of the previously presented techniques for the next issue, which should be out soon.

I gave props to RM because she was the first person I saw with the helmet design, if that is wrong then it is my error. I didn't want to over work the helmet so I kept it pretty simple, but do have a future project idea for a better one. Just didn't have time and the point of the figure was to summaries the previous techniques explained in the Minifig Customization Article series, so I was also trying to keep things relatively simple for the article.

Quick note, no the shield is not a KK@ shield. I only borrowed the hand grip.

More to come shortly.

Oh and the designs have been loaded to the directory along with about 30 other new designs, but I haven't had time to add them to the catalog. On top of being out of town, I also have had an eye issue so sitting at the computer or playing with a figure is currently quite difficult.

Kam

[Kaminoan]

Design is up on my site as are several others that many of you guys haven't seen yet, including my Centurion.

Kam

[Prince Imdol]

A good overall design. I would loose the brimmed helmet because legionnaires did not have those. Maybe an SPQR sign aswell?


P.I