Lands of Classic Castle - Discussion Thread

[richardanthonyc]

(Although I was hoping that eventually there would be a super event EB v. CC Worlds)

There must be war... GOD WILLS IT

[mencot]

(Although I was hoping that eventually there would be a super event EB v. CC Worlds)

There must be war... GOD WILLS IT

Hey I missed that comment from skaforhires text, how could I do that .
Of course, join our forces brothers and crush those.. hmm (something really bad saying) ... over at EB

[richardanthonyc]

(Although I was hoping that eventually there would be a super event EB v. CC Worlds)

There must be war... GOD WILLS IT

Hey I missed that comment from skaforhires text, how could I do that .
Of course, join our forces brothers and crush those.. hmm (something really bad saying) ... over at EB

I don't know if I could bring myself to side with a red

[mencot]

(Although I was hoping that eventually there would be a super event EB v. CC Worlds)

There must be war... GOD WILLS IT

Hey I missed that comment from skaforhires text, how could I do that .
Of course, join our forces brothers and crush those.. hmm (something really bad saying) ... over at EB

I don't know if I could bring myself to side with a red [/quote]
That is very true, I only find one thing more disgusting then sideing with the Blue`s and that is to be friends with a Green.

[AK_Brickster]

Long time lurker over here, first time poster (this project got me to register, yay!) - so take this all with a grain of salt. I have been participating over in GoH and there are a few limitations I have seen that might end up hurting them in the end. I thought I might point some out here, so that it might all be avoided. Plus I wanted to throw in my own ideas that I would have presented had I been around at the start of GoH.
---
OK, Finally - and I know that things have progressed so far that many might think that it is too late for such ideas, but I really wanted to share them. Steal whatever you want from this post. This works best for a model where the project involves a game like atmosphere.(...)

Anyway, just a few thoughts. No matter what I plan to participate. I have been building a lot of eastern and desert style stuff in GoH, I am looking forward to building more European style things once in a while.

If the administrators of the project need any help, just let me know. I think this will be fun. (Although I was hoping that eventually there would be a super event EB v. CC Worlds)

Holy Mega Bloking Mega Bloks... that was a lot of content

OK, as one of the members who's actively developing this, I am very keen on picking up suggestions from someone who wants to improve on the EB experience. Let me go thru some of your suggestions...

1) No expansion territory - I think CC's map should be made to expand, and not just to another continent, but on the same continent the factions are on. Historica is really cool, but if they ever want to do a "war" they are going to be hard pressed, because they are going to have to destroy some of the stuff already created. Not that that can't happen, but I feel they boxed themselves in.
I agree with you, for the most part. I don't think we "need" to have a map that is attached to an "off-camera" landmass, but it does seem like it would make it easier to expand later if we did. A large unexplored region, big enough for another Province would allow the same, I think.

2) Guild masters. I like all the guild masters, they are all great people and run the guild to the best of their ability, but there needs to be more than one person in charge of a guild if the setup stays the same.
Right now we are going to probably have 1 primary leader and 1 (I don't like this term for it, but for simplicity's sake) assistant leader. We can add more if needed as the project grows.

3) More factions! I will present my alternate take at the end of this post... But I feel they could have incorporated more factions.
We are trying to build into this as much freedom as possible. We don't want to "trap" anyone into a certain building style just because they belong to the "Desert" or the "Arctic" faction. Everyone will have a variety of terrains to choose from, and if you want to build something entirely different, just put a representative of your Province in there holding a standard and make up a story about why he's "in the desert" or "trapped in the dungeon of an evil castle". We also are "assigning" official lego crests to certain regions, but people will be encouraged to create their own custom factions, either using generic torsos or decals.

4) Judging. Personally, i have no problem with it in GoH, but I know some do. All four of those guild leaders are master builders in their own right. However, they do have similar styles to some extent. Also, it seems that larger builds are usually chosen over smaller. I personally don't care if something is SNOT built or bumpy - as long as it looks cooled, but I think they may have a different opinion. I know some people are a bit disatisfied after the Tower challenge because they did not see the results or felt left out. Like I said, I personally don't mind how they are doing it - but this challenge may want to do it differently.
I think that we are leaning toward the leaders hand-picking the top few entries from each region and then opening it to a CC-wide vote over in the main MOC forum. This will both promote the LCC and keep the personal preferences of a select few from determining the winner.

1)Low magic zones. I see a lot of people fear magic over powering this community build. I think an island is alright, but that also limits where those people can build. What about just low magic ares of the continent? say some powerful deity or object limits magic to almost uselessness.
I think that everyone has agreed (for the most part) to tolerate occasional magic use in areas other than the island/designated "magic hub" (centaurs/elves/druids in the forests, dwarves mining in the mountains, putting a wizard in the top of your castle's tower). We want to keep the restrictions off as much as possible so that people's creativity isn't dampened.

2)Factions being CC figures... One of the things that was annoying about GoH was that the guilds all made a standard foot troop (other than Nocturnus). It can get quite expensive trying to buy these - especially if 20 other people are buying them. Equally, those who do not use stickers will be hard pressed to create classic castle looking figs.
see above. There will be several official lego crests available to each region, and generic or custom decals are also welcome. Basically, if you can make it fit the general feel of your area, we aren't going to be Nazis about it.

3) Lastly, I think there is an identity crisis here, one that it doesn't seem people have mentioned. Is this a copy of GoH, in the sense that it is a community build about a world, or is it something totally different? It seems many people have mentioned "taking over lands" or waging "war." None of that can really happen in GoH, because they locked themselves in, and would really have to tear one another apart. I think they will eventually war, but with no foundation rules, people are going to get angry. This may be the game designer in me, but if rules are set out in the beginning less problems will occur later on. So my question again is: Is this a large story driven community build or a large story driven community build that is also a game? This forum is a bit more militaristic than the EB forum, so it kind of seemed like a lot of you were leaning towards the later.
Being that we're mostly castle-builders, we like builds with conflict. I don't think we can make it as dynamic as what you proposed in the second half of your post, but we definitely plan on building some conflict into the in-game story, which will be progressed by periodic global challenges.

4) Wiki = great idea. You can really show the history of the project that way, while leaving the discussion and MOC review here.
I'll let someone else respond to this. I'm not familiar with them.

As for all of the gameplay suggestions. I don't know how to implement them how you've described without it totally taking over my life. I work 60-70 hours/week and am married, so I personally can't run something like that. I think this will be a MOC based land with an evolving storyline, but what you've described almost seems like it needs it's own operating platform to keep track of everything.

Anyways, welcome to our little project. We're definitely happy to have you and I'm sure you'll be an asset in the development of this project as it grows.
And yes, an EB vs CC showdown would be pretty cool, though I'm sure we have a lot of people who participate in both forums, so it would be tough to choose which one to represent. We'll have to see if we can make that happen at some point, though.

[skaforhire]

Holy Mega Bloking Mega Bloks... that was a lot of content

OK, as one of the members who's actively developing this, I am very keen on picking up suggestions from someone who wants to improve on the EB experience. Let me go thru some of your suggestions...



As for all of the gameplay suggestions. I don't know how to implement them how you've described without it totally taking over my life. I work 60-70 hours/week and am married, so I personally can't run something like that. I think this will be a MOC based land with an evolving storyline, but what you've described almost seems like it needs it's own operating platform to keep track of everything.

Anyways, welcome to our little project. We're definitely happy to have you and I'm sure you'll be an asset in the development of this project as it grows.
And yes, an EB vs CC showdown would be pretty cool, though I'm sure we have a lot of people who participate in both forums, so it would be tough to choose which one to represent. We'll have to see if we can make that happen at some point, though.

ha, yeah I basically write all day so I am long winded. Lego is my break from a dissertation and teaching.

I didn't think the second half would be incorporated - but I just wanted to get it out there. But to explain a little further - It would take about 2 weeks to hammer out rules, but I was thinking something overly simple so that it does not take away from the MOC challenges - it just gives something else to drive more of the story. As for implementing them, I think as long as someone was a "banker" and everyone sent in an email about why they earned what gold (a google form could accomplish this) then it would not be incredibly hard to keep track of. The other administrator needed to run it would be the map maker, who would update the map when someone expanded. I agree, most people work many hours a week and don't want another job. That was another reason I suggested more than one faction leader, and I am glad you all are thinking at least two. To prevent further burnout, more administrators of the contests would be good too.

I think I just liked the idea of dynamic factions and the ability of a builder to rise to "king" and then the next year someone else be able to do it. But like I said, I would be happy with a GoH clone, as I could build some more European MOCs this time around. Just wanted to get a few thoughts out there to help the process.

Looking forward to what comes from this!

[Cuahchic]

I thought that post by skaforhire was excellent. Very thought-provoking. It does sound like a lot of work but it would take it to the next level. It would go from a building competition to a full-blown RPG, but one that would probably produce a lot of interest. I would definitely sign up for such an event! It sounds quite similar to say a Total War game, where you expand your territory.

And I agree with some of skaforhire's points about the limitations of GoH (good to see you here buddy (I am Basiliscus on EB)). The hardest bit to manage is the battles - once someone wants to live in a border territory then you take it away from them to another faction then people just get angry and leave.

Adding to skaforhire's post - treaties etc could be defined with punishments for breaking them. Treaties would need a MOC to enact them (and one to break them). My biggest criticism of your ideas is how to you ensure that the quality remains high? What you are suggesting is valuing quantity of quality (in that more MOCs = more gold) but I could throw together 5 bricks and call it a house etc, how do you stop that scenario? Just something to consider!

[mencot]

I thought that post by skaforhire was excellent. Very thought-provoking. It does sound like a lot of work but it would take it to the next level. It would go from a building competition to a full-blown RPG, but one that would probably produce a lot of interest. I would definitely sign up for such an event! It sounds quite similar to say a Total War game, where you expand your territory.

And I agree with some of skaforhire's points about the limitations of GoH (good to see you here buddy (I am Basiliscus on EB)). The hardest bit to manage is the battles - once someone wants to live in a border territory then you take it away from them to another faction then people just get angry and leave.

Adding to skaforhire's post - treaties etc could be defined with punishments for breaking them. Treaties would need a MOC to enact them (and one to break them). My biggest criticism of your ideas is how to you ensure that the quality remains high? What you are suggesting is valuing quantity of quality (in that more MOCs = more gold) but I could throw together 5 bricks and call it a house etc, how do you stop that scenario? Just something to consider!

Yes it was execellent, as is stated in my earlier post. But maybe we should start slow and evolve over time. But we are in a good situation here like skaforhire, we don`t wanna do a GoH clone and make some mistakes that makes it hard to advance in the future. We have to make some ground rules of evolvement, that we can advance in a greater in making this maybe like you said a full blown RPG. Like Ak-brickster said, me too and I think all of us have limited time they can use making a Huge RPG. But if this project gets the interest of many members and we get it going like we hope it would, then maybe we should advance in this direction.

I didn't think the second half would be incorporated - but I just wanted to get it out there. But to explain a little further - It would take about 2 weeks to hammer out rules, but I was thinking something overly simple so that it does not take away from the MOC challenges - it just gives something else to drive more of the story. As for implementing them, I think as long as someone was a "banker" and everyone sent in an email about why they earned what gold (a google form could accomplish this) then it would not be incredibly hard to keep track of. The other administrator needed to run it would be the map maker, who would update the map when someone expanded. I agree, most people work many hours a week and don't want another job. That was another reason I suggested more than one faction leader, and I am glad you all are thinking at least two. To prevent further burnout, more administrators of the contests would be good too.

Quoting skaforehire, when this project is up and going and we have more members we share the responsibilities on more members.

[Albatross_Viking]

I have a short point to mention about waging war:
In some FlickR groups (maybe World at War?), I've seen systems were conflicts are solved and winners found by building MOCs. To bring this into LCC, say, Red declares war on Blue. A Red member then builds a MOC showing his cavalry mowing down some Blue infantrymen, while a Blue member builds one of his pikemen breaking the cavalry's charge. Then somebody (we'll have to find out who and how) could choose the best one, and the political/geographical changes could be applied according to that decision. Just tossing this out, but it might be a usefull way to solve battles. Naturally, there'll also be need for a way of choosing whether or not a faction wants to declare war, either by voting or by a choice made by f.ex. the regional admin. Even if we're not going to have major, evolving conflicts between the factions, this system (or any variation of it) could be used as a means of capturing unclaimed land.

[Eklund]

These are my thoughts on being able to take territory by waging war. What if in real life, someone is gone on a trip, and then while they are gone, someone declares war on them, and since they are not at home, they can't make a moc to "defend themselves", and so they get their territory taken? That would only happen in the rpg style skaforhire presented, and I have to say I am not in support of such a game. I think that if wars are to be waged it should be between two factions and not just two members of opposing factions.

[Albatross_Viking]

These are my thoughts on being able to take territory by waging war. What if in real life, someone is gone on a trip, and then while they are gone, someone declares war on them, and since they are not at home, they can't make a moc to "defend themselves", and so they get their territory taken? That would only happen in the rpg style skaforhire presented, and I have to say I am not in support of such a game. I think that if wars are to be waged it should be between two factions and not just two members of opposing factions.

Excactly. If we go with the system I mentioned (I'm not saying we should, just telling about it), the attacked faction could maybe have a short time to find the best response to an attack, as in who should build the MOC.

[shmails]

These are my thoughts on being able to take territory by waging war. What if in real life, someone is gone on a trip, and then while they are gone, someone declares war on them, and since they are not at home, they can't make a moc to "defend themselves", and so they get their territory taken? That would only happen in the rpg style skaforhire presented, and I have to say I am not in support of such a game. I think that if wars are to be waged it should be between two factions and not just two members of opposing factions.

I agree with this. In the beginning, we should concentrate on building the world, we will have a better idea of how this might work once we have been in it for a while. If you want some conflict, create a bandit tribe and raid some villages or guard towers. Or be a faction and raid a bandit settlement, we should keep all out war on the back burner for now.

edit: here is a thought - what if we incorporate the CC Battles contest into this and create a special "wartime" when all creations would have to involve some conflict? It could even be broken down into a faction vs. faction contest? Just a thought.

[wobnam]

A fundamental principle for this whole thing to work is that noone else can come and force major changes on a builder's character or group.

War or other interaction between members is still an interesting concept, and I think it can be set up without the problems Eklund describes.

[Albatross_Viking]

edit: here is a thought - what if we incorporate the CC Battles contest into this and create a special "wartime" when all creations would have to involve some conflict? It could even be broken down into a faction vs. faction contest? Just a thought.

Interesting idea, that's definitely worth considering!

[Medieval Guy]

Unless we come up with an excellent system for waging war, I can see this ending in disastor. The MOC contest for a battle is decent, though it could easily become a popularity contest, or people might choose the side that they'd prefer as the victor, regardless of the skill displayed in the MOC, as long as it would benefit their own faction. This could pose a serious problem. The only solution I can see is the honor system. I think we can trust everyone here, but I haven't been around long so I don't know for sure.