Vikings and Bionicle

[SavaTheAggie]

So Ben and I were talking about it today. I've not recieved my Fortress in the mail yet, but Ben has, and he was compliaining about the non-creature bionicle parts (like the big bionicle shields on the fortress). And I said "Annoying, perhaps, but a good business decision."

And as I've been thinking about it, I thought it'd make a good point of discussion for CC. And while it has been brought up before, I don't think it's had its own thread.

So why did I think it was a good business decision to include bionicle parts in the Viking line?

My answer is somewhat long, so here goes:

I've been following the Toy Drive hype around the internet, and this has brought me more than once to go view BZPower, the end-all Bionicle website on the Internet. BZPower is absolutely alive, as far as I can tell, with Viking talk, about all the new Bionicle and Bionicle-compatible parts in the Viking line.

And this got me thinking - all of those Bionicle kids (and adults) are going to be collecting a lot of System pieces along with their bionicle pieces. Perhaps, just perhaps, eventually they'd branch out into other LEGO system themes because of it.

We already know LEGO's been trying to create a Bionicle/System bridge. Look at the new Bionicle playsets. And then there's the large KK2 figs that correspond with the smaller KK2 system sets.

The Bionicle playsets form a direct bridge, bionicle parts and system pieces put together. These sets, though, also include some rather odd, and rather uselss pieces IMO, like the static minifigs and the huge decorative pieces.

The KK2 figs form a bridge by association, with the only connection being having large action figures that correspond to system scale minifigs.

With Vikings, you have two totally unrelated themes sold in the same package. System compatible figs, system bricks, decorated by Bionicle and Bionicle figs. The bridge is there, but instead of melding the two, you have the two seperated as System versus Bionicle.

So what do you think?

Is this iteration of Bionicle within the Viking line a good business decision (do NOT answer with "No, I hate bionicle and thus its a bad decision")?

Will this be a successful bridge between Bionicle fans and the system sets LEGO wants them to purchase?

If so, will this be a better bridge than the KK2 action figures and/or the Bionicle Playsets?

If not, why will it fail?

Will this work in the opposite direction, and bring some system people into Bionicle? Why/why not?

Remember, this is NOT an "I hate Bionicle" thread, so if you reply with such an answer, I will personally delete it. This thread is for meaningful, thought provoking discussion, whichever side of the bionicle fence you happen to be on.

--Anthony

[Formendacil]

So what do you think?

Well, I don't think that you're the first one to note the astuteness of this business decision, but you are the first one to thoughtfully present it, and then give it your seal of approval.

Is this iteration of Bionicle within the Viking line a good business decision (do NOT answer with "No, I hate bionicle and thus its a bad decision")?

If what you are saying about BZPower is correct, then it's an awesome decision. Thanks to KK2, we've already drawn over a couple of Bionicle fans into System play (Sir Kohran, formerly SKMfromBZPower comes first to mind). And personally, if done well, I don't really mind a few Bionicle pieces here and there.

Will this be a successful bridge between Bionicle fans and the system sets LEGO wants them to purchase?

I don't know if we'll see a wide-ranging shift of Bionicle fans into System play, but I do think that the Vikings will sell to both sets of fans, thus selling more sets, and boosting LEGO sales- and not incidentally proving that "historically"-based lines sell well.

If so, will this be a better bridge than the KK2 action figures and/or the Bionicle Playsets?

If not, why will it fail?

Vikings will be a better bridge that KK2 or Playsets, because Vikings are, quite simply, the best line, for play and parts. KK2 comes close on the system side, but it incorporates virtually no Bionicle parts (a fact I like about them). And the Playsets are, as noted, lacking in pieces and normal fig articulation.

Will this work in the opposite direction, and bring some system people into Bionicle? Why/why not?

I rather doubt it. I think it's sort of a one-way valve. People can get drawn into the older, more brain-challlenging (sorry, Bionicle fans), but I don't forsee much going the other way.

[architect]

This will be a good discussion. I agree that adding Bionicle is a good business decision for the current market. However I think it is a terrible decision for expanding system to other users, especially girls. The women of my family like the fortress but not the extra bionicle shields and horns. I believe that LEGO needs to branch out into more non-violent and non-action aspects of their castle/viking lines (and in many lines in general). I also dislike that many action based themes are being bionicalized just for profit or tie in reasons. Bionicle is fine for a certain type of kid, but not all. This is why I would prefer not to have bionicle in Vikings.

Ben

[Bruce N H]

Hey Anthony,

I've said something similar in a thread on the Bionicle playsets. I think anything that helps transition Bionicle fans to System is a good thing. That said, I hope that in future Viking releases, some of them will be without Bionicle parts for the sake of people who are already System builders who don't want a lot more parts for our "useless parts" bins (yes, I know, nothing is useless, but I'm sure most of us have a box of parts that sits in the back of the closet of very speciallized parts that we rarely use).

Edit, to add some response to Ben and Formy's posts:
On System --> Bionicle, I don't think that these will do it. System --> Bionicle does happen, but it's mostly with the mecha crowd, who wouldn't be likely to buy Vikings anyway. I suppose some of our resident dragon builders might see the utility of various Bionicle pieces, but this isn't a huge group.

On Ben's point, I definitely agree that we need more "civilian" sets in all areas of castle and related themes, and the argument that those might be more appealing to girls than the action-based sets is a very strong one.

Bruce

Bruce

[lil Jon]

I never really thought of it like that. You made some good point. It makes a lot of sense.

I'll add some more to this post once I think about it a little more.

[Norro]

Good business move. But doesn't make me personnaly buy more... rather less.

God Bless,

Nathan (short is beautiful ; )

[Snap Dracone]

I think it's absolutely swell, but then, I'm also both a System and Bionicle fan...

System –> Bionicle I don't think would be especially likely for most Viking buyers. Not really sure why. I just doubt it. Bionicle –> System, however, I think is much more likely, especially coupled with the playsets. (I think the playsets are a bit odd at points, but they get the thing across. But that's neither here nor there.) The Bionicle elements, namely the dragons, contain lots of useful Bionicle pieces for MOCing – those being largely the abundance of dark red and dark green – and so the sets might be bought partly for those and partly because they're just great sets anyway. By Bionicle fans, at least.

As for the KK2 figures... They could go as a bridge in either direction, I guess. They would work as a transition from the Bionicle figures to KK2, or as from (younger, most likely) system builders to Bionicle.

And Formendacil, yes, that is correct about BZP. The Vikings are quite popular there.

So, I would say definitely keep the two mixed.

– Snap, a.k.a. ToM, BZP Forum Assistant

[LEGOFREAK]

personally I think it is good business sense. I know my son loves bionicles, and he really wants to get the bionicle/system hybrid that is coming out. Its the first mostly system set that he has been excited about since the Star Wars ep 3 sets.
while not every kid is the same, from the kids I have seen who love bionicle (most in my neighborhood) they love the system hybrid sets.
I guess we'll see

[Chancellor Erik]

Well, it sounds smart in a business way, but...(here comes the rant)

Bionicle and classic system pieces should not be combined. Period, end of story. Bionicle-ish pieces (which evolved from earlier technic-specialized lines such as throwbots and robo-riders) are part of that special technic brance of Lego. Now, from what I understand Technic was originally intended for older builders (an attempt to keep teens interested in Legos). Thus came mindstorms and model team. Now, bionicle is the anti-technic technic (yes, it sounds wierd). The large but more complex mechanical technic parts have been simplified into a poor excuse for a Lego product, a creative but overly-childish Lego hero line that (at this rate) could go on forever. Now, not that this is a bad thing for 9 year olds who love them, but to those of use who want to see better system sets, doesn't the problem lie with bionicle? I mean, if bionicle was just scrapped as a Lego line, wouldn't we start to see better quality system sets? Now, obviosly bionicle is Legos saving grace right now, with most of its product revenue coming from...obsessed 9-year olds. But by creating better system sets wouldn't us devoted fans of series' such as castle, space, and town just balance the whole deal out money-wise? In my opinion, Lego needs to grow up, and fast. Bionicle-like product lines are ok with me as long as the quality of system sets is not sacraficed due to relocation of funds to bionicle.

And so ends my rant.

[HenrytheV]

In my humble opinion, Bionicle can be good as long as you don't overuse it. The Viking dragons were okay, but with the Bionicle shields and all I thing Lego went too far. I remember when the throwbots came out and I though they were cool. But when it turned into all that mysticism and special powers, it wasn't cool anymore. Now kids can say,"My bionicle has the mask of invincibilty, so I win". The kids don't play with just a pile of bricks anymore, they build the set and keep it that way.

I think Lego should also come out with regular castle buildings. My sister would like to play with Lego, but she only likes to build houses and currently Lego has a severe lack of those. Right now all Lego gives to girls are Clikits and Bellville. Most girls are a lot older than that stuff and they don't like predominately pink and purple structures. I think if Lego came out with little villages and houses they would draw in the crowd of girls who don't want something that is juniorized.

HenrytheV

[Lord_Of_The_LEGO]

I think Bionicle parts in the Viking line is mostly a good thing. Note I said mostly.

I think that the Bionicle monsters are excellent. I don't think they'd be as good (or as posable) without the Bionicle parts. However, the funky shield in the Fenris set and the other misc Bionicle smeared over the Fortress are too much. They serve no purpose, unlike the ball joints and other hinges in the Bionicle creatures.

I say: Bionicle parts in System sets are good, just if used in moderation.

[Snap Dracone]

Now, not that this is a bad thing for 9 year olds who love them, but to those of use who want to see better system sets, doesn't the problem lie with bionicle? I mean, if bionicle was just scrapped as a Lego line, wouldn't we start to see better quality system sets?

(Please pardon my while I drag this slightly off-topic...)
Simple answer: No.
Long answer: Consider how much revenue Lego gets from the Bionicle line. Financially, terminating it abruptly – as opposed to with an end to the story – would be a really bad move. Since this is one of Lego's strongest lines, if they stopped it, people couldn't buy it, thus making Lego lose money. And lots of it. There are probably people whose Lego sets bought are largely Bionicle. If they couldn't buy it, then they would buy fewer Lego sets, and the people who buy the much larger sets couldn't buy those, et cetera.
Back to the point, I don't see how ending Bionicle would improve the quality of other Lego themes. Off the top of my head, I can think of two System themes that incorporate Bionicle: Alpha Team and the Vikings. Not having Bionicle would change how the sets appear and function – whether negatively or positively is an oppinion. I agree with Nate that the use of Bionicle for the dragons works better than using System; it allows for more realistic flexibility. But, because LEGO is making such a profit from the line (Bionicle), simply ending it would be silly. AFOLs would probably prefer some sets sans-Bionicle pieces, so keeping them out of predominantly-System sets (aside from things like the dragons) might work to attract more profits. But ending the line would just be ridiculous. Not to mention that the fan base would be outraged. At any rate, my point is that I doubt the quality of other sets would improve because Bionicle were ended.

On another point, just to note – the fans of Bionicle who follow the story are more around the ages of 11-15-ish. Sets appeal to younger ones as well, but the fan base is largely in this area.

To drag this post back on topic, I agree that the use of Bionicle shields as shields in the sets is just odd. They can't be used by the minifigs, and they distract from the appearance. But the dragons should definitely stay.

[SavaTheAggie]

I just wanted to add a question to the discussion, since the topic has come up a few times thus far.


Will the inclusion of so much Bionicle and Bionicle-compatible pieces in the Viking line turn off more or less System builders than it will bring in from the Bionicle builders?

Why?

--Anthony

[Formendacil]

Will the inclusion of so much Bionicle and Bionicle-compatible pieces in the Viking line turn off more or less System builders than it will bring in from the Bionicle builders?

Why?

I don't think it will have a huge impact.

I can only speak for myself, of course, but I think that the Vikings are overall a well enough worth it theme that a few rouge Bionicle pieces won't stop me from buying them.

[Bruce N H]

Hey all,

Dragging up an old topic, today I was looking at my most recent LEGO catalog, and I was really struck by the newest Bionicle sets. A year ago, Tony started this thread noting that the (then) new Bionicle playsets were slowly brining Bionicle fans into more system building. Remember at that point they introduced these new minifig-scale bionicle figures, but they were single molded pieces. The sets still had large odd Bionicle pieces, but they also started to incorporate more System bricks. Now look at some of the new fall 2006 sets, such as Lava Chamber Gate and Piraka Stronghold. The molded figs seem to be gone, replaced by poseable figs using some of the Exo-Force robot pieces with Bionicle-looking mask heads (hmm, are these useable with traditional figs? Possible demons or witch-doctor masks.). These sets are also very brick-y (hmm, are those tall slopes and arches in dark blue?). I'm even interested in those raised baseplates for castle applications.

Dare I say it? I kind of like these new Bionicle sets. Plus, as with Tony's point last year, these are making even more of a bridge to System for younger builders.

Bruce