The Black Falcons are the good guys!

Fenneke-Jose · Post by **Fenneke-Jose** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 9:12 am

I was wondering if you guys ever thought about this. I get the feeling that everyone always see the Black Falcons as the bad guys, but I am curious if I persuade you!

A) The Forestman / Robin Hood are considered considered as the good guys. In set 6077 http://www.classic-castle.com/sets/archives/6077.html they keep a Lion knight as prisoner. This means that Lion Knight's and Forestman are enemies!

B) In set 6062 http://www.classic-castle.com/sets/archives/6062.html The Black Falcons are under attack by the Lion Knight's. This means that Lion Knight's and The Black Falcons are enemies of each other.

C) The ancestors of The Royal Knights are the Lion Knight's / Crusaders. In set 6046 http://www.classic-castle.com/sets/archives/6046.html the Forestman are being attacked by the Royal Knight's.

If you take A, B and C into consideration, it means that The Black Falcons are the good guys!

More proof?

D) In set 6057 http://www.classic-castle.com/sets/archives/6057.html and 6059 http://www.classic-castle.com/sets/archives/6059.html The Black Falcons are attacking the Black Knight's.

E) In set 6079 http://www.classic-castle.com/sets/archives/6079.html Forestman ambush The Dragonmasters. The ancestors of the Dragonmasters are The Black Knight's. This means that the Dragonmasters are the bad guys.

If you take D and E in consideration. Then there is no other conclusion that the Black Knight's / Dragonmasters are the bad guys and that the Forestman and The Black Falcons are the good guys and probably the are allies.

I am curious how you guys think of this

Sir Kohran · Post by **Sir Kohran** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 11:16 am

'Good' is entirely subjective. It was never really shown that the Forestmen were good, and neither the Falcons. For all we know the Falcons may have been a load of wicked murderers who carried out genocide on their enemies. Who knows but the people who actually worked on these sets in the 80s/90s?

- Matt

Aliencat · Post by **Aliencat** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 12:44 pm

I think these sets were made with the intention of not having a good or an evil faction, just two factions at war (the Crusaders and the Black Falcons) and the Forestmen in the middle.
It was up to the kid who played with the sets to decide who was good and evil, and that's what's so great about the classic sets.

HeartOfDarkness · Post by **HeartOfDarkness** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 5:06 pm

Why does everyone consider the forestmen to be good? They're thieves and arsonists! No doubt the Falcons leave them alone and do a few favors for them in return for plundered goods, making the Falcons greedy, unethical bullies.

Yet, I still love Black Falcons and Forestmen above all others.

Jibbajaba · Post by **Jibbajaba** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 5:27 pm

Aliencat wrote:I think these sets were made with the intention of not having a good or an evil faction, just two factions at war (the Crusaders and the Black Falcons) and the Forestmen in the middle. It was up to the kid who played with the sets to decide who was good and evil, and that's what's so great about the classic sets.

This is how I feel. I don't ever look at my classic sets and think "these are the good guys, and those guys are EVIL!" I just look at them all as being at war with each other.

This is how it works in my mind. All of the Castle factions live in their own little city-state type of areas, and they like to fight with and attempt to plunder each other. I see the Forestmen as basically neutral. They are just hanging out in the forest doing their own thing. They aren't really advanced enough to go to war with any of the factions in Legoland, but at the same time they have to defend themselves and they sometimes have to steal to survive.

Why did they have a crusader knight held captive? Who knows. Maybe he showed up at their encampment and started acting like a butthole, or maybe they were going to ambush some lion knights coming through the area, and he discovered them so they had to capture him to shut him up.

The Wolfpack I see as just having less scruples than the Forestmen when it comes to crime. While I see the Forestmen as people who will steal out of necessity, the Wolfpack will steal (and kill in the process if needs be) just out of greed. They would go to war with the other factions in Legoland if they had the resources to do so.

This is why I don't think that the current Crown Knights theme is the second coming like some other people do. There is less opportunity to use your imagination with them. There is obvious good and bad factions. Knights and dwarves: good, trolls and orcs (or whatever they are): bad. No fun.

Sorry to write all of that out. I think we have a thread here somewhere about the alignment of the factions already, but I didn't feel like I could properly address the topic without going into more detail.

Chris

DerBum · Post by **DerBum** » Tue Dec 25, 2007 2:14 am

I never saw the Forestmen as "good guys" either. The whole robbing thing doesnt play in my world. I always saw the Forestmen as the dirt bags of my Kingdom. The Lions and Black Falcons were at odds with each other, but neither one of them was bad or good, they were just two different Kingdoms wrestling for control. As an aside when we were younger my older brother and I always just assumed the Lions were of English extraction and the Black Falcons were Germanic. The Black Knights were perhaps from further east like the area of modern Poland or the Czech Republic. It was subjective as to which was good or bad, but then that was what made it so great.

kelderic · Post by **kelderic** » Tue Dec 25, 2007 6:46 am

Personally, I have always seen the Black Falcons as good guys. When I joined CC, I noticed the same thing you have. The idea that BFs are the bad guys is prevalent. However, it still just comes down to whatever they are when you play with them.

Kelderic

Horak the Great · Post by **Horak the Great** » Tue Dec 25, 2007 7:23 pm

Heheh... this thread is funny. For me, the various factions represent different political views, and the strife between the various factions is really a microcosm of politics.

Right now, I see the Black Falcons as a vassal faction to the Black Knights. (All hail Black Knights!!!) I have two key factions: the Black Knights and Dark Forest/Forestmen. The Black Knights have a hierarchical system of political organization; they have a rather bleak and cynical view of human nature (because they have remembered the countless conflicts before them) and are ruthless, when the occasion demands it. The Wolfpack defected from the Dark Forest/Forestmen faction and serve their overlords, the Black Knights as mercenaries (i.e., Hired Thugs), to do their dirty work and bypass the Guardians (kind of like Jedi).

Meanwhile, back in the Forest... The Dark Forest/Forestmen faction are primitive anarchists/communists in political orientation.

Remember the following part in Monty Python Holy Grail?

Dennis' Mother: I didn't know we had a king. I thought we were an autonomous collective.
Dennis: You're fooling yourself. We're living in a dictatorship! A self-perpetuating autocracy in which the working class...
Dennis' Mother: Oh there you go, bringing class into it again!
Dennis: But that's what it's all about! If only people would realise...
Arthur: Please, please, good people. I am in haste. Who lives in that castle?
Dennis' Mother: No one lives there.
Arthur: Then who is your lord?
Dennis' Mother: We don't have a lord.

Dennis: I told you. We're an anarcho-syndicalist commune. We take it in turns to act as sort-of-executive officer for the week...
Arthur: Yes.
Dennis: ... But all the decisions of that officer have to be ratified at a special biweekly meeting...
Arthur: Yes, I see.
Dennis:... by a simple majority, in the case of purely internal affairs...
Arthur: [getting bored] Be quiet.

They have a pickaxe crossed with a pitchfork (a la hammer and sickle) in a red background as their symbol.

I could ramble on more about my factions... the Royal Knights as a faction representing the bourgeosie, etc., etc., but you get the idea!
It's called Imaaaginaaaation (in Sponge bob voice) which can include borrowing ideas.

Count Blacktron · Post by **Count Blacktron** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 12:20 pm

I think the appropriate war tactics would be to suggest that all Castle factions are within a limited range of land (particullarly in the 1980s) and when borders and resources become scarce, disputes may ensue. At least that has been my understanding as I study history and the limited space upon my shelves and tables...

Another thought to consider:
"Good... Bad... I'm the guy with the gun."
Ash, Housewares in The Army Of Darkness

Image removed by admin

Deadites beware!!

Fenneke-Jose · Post by **Fenneke-Jose** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 7:49 pm

Those poor Black Falcons under attack of the Bad Lion Knights/Crusaders.
http://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?i=2995633

Greetings,

José

Lamanda2 · Post by **Lamanda2** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 10:41 pm

I have always thought of the Black Falcons as "good", but then again, I also think of the Forestmen, Black Knights, Royal Knights, Crusaders, ect. as "good". I suppose when I come down to it, I don't really think of any factions as "bad".

It's a very tricky thing sometimes to determine "Good" and "Evil", and I really liked that in the older sets they didn't define this, that way it gave you a choice to decide it for yourself.

In Recent lines; Knights Kingdom 1 & 2 and "Castle", they make it rather clear who are the good guys and who are the bad. Personally, I prefer it when you choose for yourself the allignments, but hey, I can't complain, I love the new "Castle" line!

Interesting topic, it's fun to read everyones thoughts.

~Amanda

Sir Kohran · Post by **Sir Kohran** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 10:43 pm

Always thought it was funny how many people automatically consider the Forestmen to be good guys. So just because they're a rebel group, that makes them good? Rebels can be good or bad - for all we know they could be the Castle equivalent of the Free French, or on the other hand the equivalent of Al Qaeda. We just don't know.

Tedward · Post by **Tedward** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 11:03 pm

Sir Kohran wrote:Always thought it was funny how many people automatically consider the Forestmen to be good guys.

I always thought the BFs were the good guys and the forestmen were drunken outlaw Robin-hood wannabees.

Jojo · Post by **Jojo** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 12:42 am

Hello!

I don’t know if the Black Falcons are the good guys.
All I know is: They are the cool guys.

Besides that I’m completely with Aliencat on this topic of ”good“ and ”evil“.

Bye
Jojo

DaleDVM · Post by **DaleDVM** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 5:50 pm

I posted in another forum that I always thought they were the blue falcons. I started collecting after the fort came out and their name really wasn't on any other packaging. Black knights certainly sounded bad to me in the past so I put the blue falcons on the good guys side. Allied with the crusaders and forestmen. I have over 200 black knights and dragonmasters. I have about 250 crusaders, forestmen, and blue/black falcons.

I have definate good and bad factions as I have made alliances with my lego forces. I am now trying to set up my 1100 minifigs and all of my castles. I am just not sure who is on what side now that Vladeks forces 150 strong, the undead 100 approx, and now the orcs are arriving...

I'm hoping and can get enough skeletons, orcs, and Vladek/scorpion guys to put all other human creatures on the good side to stand against them...